[C320-list] Mainsail Hard to Raise/Lower

[Dennis Harris]

Dave, Robert,

Regarding the narrowing of the mast groove on your in mast furling systems, 
why don't you contact Charleston Spar directly at 704 597 1502 and talk 
directly to them regarding the problem.  If it is a serious problem, they 
probably have a fix for it, and perhaps a fix even if it is not a safety 
issue.  While my own mast is the conventional one with full batten sail, 
Catalina has been using the in mast furling system for many years now (it 
was available in 1999, and not sure how much earlier it was used).  The same 
basic design appears to be used on lots of models other than the C320.  With 
the large number of subscribers on the C320 list over many years, if there 
was a serious safety issue (as in mast failure), it would have come to light 
well before now.  Therefore, I believe you can feel confident that the mast 
is not going to fail in normal use (assuming it is rigged correctly).  Since 
the masts are aluminum extrusions, it is probable that the same dies and 
metal composition have been used for all boats using the C320 cross section. 
It is not likely to be a quality control issue, but a design issue.  Where 
the spreaders join the mast is point of high stress.  Aluminum is a ductile 
metal, and if overstressing is not too extreme, it will tend to deform 
(flow) locally to releave that stress ....that's what I believe has happened 
here.  Still not very comforting and it shouldn't happen.

Jack, as to Catalina switching to another vendor for masts, it probably has 
to do with who had the best bid for the job.  Charleston Spars are used on 
lots of boats, not just Catalinas.  Your mast gate problem seems minor 
compared to the above concerns, and if you get the gate plate adjusted 
properly and raise the sail by heading into the wind, with just a little 
pressure (sail) to the side away from the gate opening, that problem will go 
away.  Not a reason to switch from one mast manufacturer to another.

 Hope this helps.

Dennis Harris C320#694

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack McDonough" <mcdonough5 at verizon.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mainsail Hard to Raise/Lower


> Bob:
>
> As you know, I've had problems with the gate on my Charleston Spar. One 
> has to wonder about Charleston Spar quality. I notice that the newer 
> boats, at least last year's, have gone to a different manufacturer.
>
> jack
> #947
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Robert Seastream" <robert.seastream at comcast.net>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Cc: "Henderson, David" <dhender at allstate.com>; 
> <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mainsail Hard to Raise/Lower
>
>
> David:
>
> Additionally, I'd appreciate any contact and procedural information
> you receive for Charleston Spar, Catalina, etc.
>
> We bought our 2002 C320 in November of 2005.  We'll be looking at our
> mast ASAP.  It's certainly out of warranty, but if (worst case) after
> all is said mast replacement is suggested, I'll have to see what my
> insurance carrier says.  I'd like to think they'd replace it as a
> preemptive measure, rather than wait for a failure.
>
> Bob
>
> On Oct 13, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Robert Seastream wrote:
>
>> David:
>>
>> Thanks for your input.  Now I know it's not just me or my  imagination. 
>> It gives me fresh perspective, and a concrete point to  proceed from.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Oct 13, 2008, at 5:02 PM, Henderson, David wrote:
>>
>>> This is a somewhat delayed response to Bob Seastream’s post of a  couple 
>>> of weeks ago.  Bob, yes, I have had issues raising and  lowering my 
>>> in-mast (Charleston Spar) furling main on my four year  old 320 (#1049), 
>>> and I think I have discovered a potentially  serious problem.  I would 
>>> love to know if others have encountered  this issue.
>>>
>>> I noticed the problem for the first time during the 2007 season.   It 
>>> was slightly worse this past spring when I raised the main, and  now 
>>> just last week when I tried to take it down in preparation for 
>>> haul-out, it is worse still and I couldn’t get the sail down.  It 
>>> appeared that the head of the sail and/or the swivel first stuck at  the 
>>> upper spreader.  I was able to force it through.  But then it  became 
>>> really stuck at the lower spreader.  I feared that the luff  tape was 
>>> cut or frayed and somehow hanging up in the groove in the  foil.  I also 
>>> wondered if perhaps there was a joint in the foil  that it might be 
>>> catching on.
>>>
>>> This past weekend my 25 year old daughter went aloft to take a look  (my 
>>> days of going a loft are long over).  When she opened the  shackle and 
>>> disconnected the sail from the swivel, the sail fell  easily down 
>>> through the foil.  So it was now clear that the problem  was not the 
>>> luff tape or the sail, but rather the swivel seemed to  be the culprit.
>>>
>>> Upon closer inspection, it became clear that groove in the outer  part 
>>> of the mast (that the sail passes through to wind onto the  foil) was 
>>> slightly narrowed in the area of the spreader.  And in  fact, the entire 
>>> mast cavity had narrowed and was pinching the  swivel enough that it 
>>> could not slide up and down through it.  She  then went up to the second 
>>> spreader and lo and behold, same  problem, just slightly less severe.
>>>
>>> The broker who sold me the boat came by today for a look, and after 
>>> attempting to raise and lower the swivel, he confirmed the  problem.  He 
>>> even pointed out that the narrowing in the outer mast  slot is readily 
>>> visible by line of sight as you look up the mast.   Our joint conclusion 
>>> is that the load carried by the spreaders is  slowly but surely bending 
>>> the mast and narrowing the slot and  cavity, and it is a progressive 
>>> problem.  Not being able to raise  or lower the main is the first level 
>>> of concern, but ultimate mast  failure is obviously an even a greater 
>>> concern.
>>>
>>> Though I am told that I am out of warranty, the broker immediately 
>>> offered to contact Charleston Spar and Catalina on my behalf.   Needless 
>>> to say, I anxiously await their response.  Meantine, I  wanted to bring 
>>> this to the attention of anyone else with a similar  vintage 320 that 
>>> may be experiencing similar mast issues.
>>>
>>> Dave Henderson
>>>
>>> Dottie B    #1049
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>>
>>> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:16:39 -0400
>>>
>>> From: Robert Seastream <robert.seastream at comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Subject: [C320-list] Mainsail hard to raise
>>>
>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>
>>> Message-ID: <AADF86C2-2204-418F-BFC2-BF17EEE6486F at comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>>
>>> All:
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever had issues raising their (in mast furling) mainsail
>>>
>>> past roughly the two thirds point, almost requiring winching to raise
>>>
>>> it fully?
>>>
>>> We've had this issue since we bought the (used) boat.  I don't think
>>>
>>> there's any 'burrs' in the furler track; I'd expect rips in the luff
>>>
>>> if that were true.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if the roller furler might have gotten bent, although I
>>>
>>> can't imagine how.  By comparison, the roller furling jib goes up  its'
>>>
>>> own track smooth as silk.
>>>
>>> Another question is how does one access the furling mechanism for
>>>
>>> inspection/repair, once the mast is unstepped?  Perhaps that's a
>>>
>>> question for Charleston Spars.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bob Seastream
>>>
>>> Intuition # 906
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>