[C320-list] Re: [catalina320] starter battery

[Jeff Church]

Jeff,

Darrell's problem is that the starter battery dries out rapidly, possibly 
from over charging.

>It is not electrically possible to tell whether you have two batteries in 
>parallel or
>one big battery.   You simply have a plus and minus terminal and it makes 
>no
>difference (in this application) whether you attach one charger wire to the 
>Plus
>post of each paralleled battery, or both to the same positive post. 
>They're electrically
>the same point and will see identical characteristics.

Right. That's why I asked Bob to check with his tech guys. I couldn't see 
how the charger could separately sense the paralleled batteries. I wonder if 
it makes any difference if the unused charger post is jumped to the house or 
starter battery?

My 4D's are 4 years old. When I replace them with something (4 six volts?) 
I'll probably add a starting battery and address the charging situation. 
I'll take a look at the ACR. Maybe the Xantrex chargers do a better job with 
this situation?

JeffC




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
To: "C320-List" <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Re: [catalina320] starter battery


> Hi Guys,
>
>     I'm not certain I understand the problem here, but if Bob was unsure 
> if paralleled
> batteries would be sensed correctly by the charger, then he's either not 
> paying attention
> to the question or doesn't really understand electronics.
>
> It is not electrically possible to tell whether you have two batteries in 
> parallel or
> one big battery.   You simply have a plus and minus terminal and it makes 
> no
> difference (in this application) whether you attach one charger wire to 
> the Plus
> post of each paralleled battery, or both to the same postitive post. 
> They're electrically
> the same point and will see identical characteristics.
>
> Also, regarding the overcharging,  it may be possible to overcharge the 
> starting
> battery, but this situation is more likely to happen if you run your main 
> house
> batteries down low on a regular basis, because the charger will remain in 
> bulk
> charge mode longer than the starting battery needs.  If this happens from 
> time
> to time, there shouldn't be any real damage other than the starting 
> battery might
> not last quite as long as it could.  Batteries are kind of self regulating 
> when charging
> in that they will only accept as much current as they need, so it's not 
> like the starting
> battery will be accepting the same amount of charge current as the large 
> bank.
>
> If you're very concerned about overcharging your starting battery because 
> you regularly
> discharge your house bank, then just move the shore power charger leg back 
> over to
> one of the house batteries, and install the Blue Sea ACR to trickle charge 
> the starting
> battery.  I think it's like $80 and seems like a pretty cool unit.  (I 
> bought one but haven't
> installed it yet).
>
> -JeffH
>
>
> At 01:51 AM 11/5/2005, you wrote:
>>Darrell,
>>
>>I spoke with Bob at ProMariner again. As expected, his suggestion for 
>>using the third post on the charger was wrong. He suggests that you test 
>>the charger and if it is defective they will sell you a rebuilt unit. In 
>>any case, I think it might be advisable to buy a Xantrex.
>>
>>I guess I'll hold off on adding a starter battery until I'm ready to 
>>upgrade the charger.
>>
>>JeffC
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Church" <jjemail at comcast.net>
>>To: "Catalina 320" <catalina320 at list.sailjazz.com>
>>Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:30 PM
>>Subject: Re: [catalina320] starter battery
>>
>>
>>>Darrell,
>>>
>>>You aren't wrong. If you follow that procedure you are charging one bank 
>>>at a time while you are running the engine.
>>>
>>>The problem might be that you are overcharging the Group 27 battery while 
>>>using the battery charger.  I've been considering installing a starter 
>>>battery so I spoke to a customer service person at ProMariner. I have a 
>>>1998 320 with a Flyback charger. I think your boat has the same.
>>>
>>>It is very possible that there is too much of a differential between the 
>>>capacities of the battery banks, in which case, the smaller bank will 
>>>tend to overcharge. I specifically asked if one Group 27 and two 4D's in 
>>>parallel is too much of a differential. The guy practically choked.
>>>
>>>His advice was to first check the charger. Remove all the DC leads from 
>>>the charger. Power on the charger and using a multi-meter, test voltage 
>>>at each of the chargers battery connection posts. You should get 14.6 
>>>volts between each positive post and the negative post. Leave the charger 
>>>on. After 3 hours it should be in float mode where you should get 13.3 
>>>volts. That will tell you if the charger is working correctly, but 
>>>probably won't fix the overcharging problem.
>>>
>>>After that, he suggested possibly connecting each battery to a separate 
>>>charger post. (There are 3 posts on the charger. The unused one should 
>>>currently be jumped to one of the others.)  When I asked if the 
>>>paralleled batteries would really be sensed independently, he was not 
>>>sure. He is going to talk to the engineers on Monday. I'll call him back 
>>>next week.
>>>
>>>Hope that helps a little.
>>>
>>>JeffC
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell" <dgray at n-sea.org>
>>>To: "Catalina 320" <catalina320 at list.sailjazz.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:18 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [catalina320] starter battery
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks Jeff and Richard, I also have the starter battery on one and the 
>>>>housebank on 2. I typically leave the selector on 1 for about 15-20 
>>>>minutes after starting then switch thru both to position 2. At this 
>>>>point I assumed that only 2 is charging, but maybe I was wrong. If so , 
>>>>where do I install the isolator? Back to the charger , if one positive 
>>>>lead goes to bank 1 and one to bank 2 , then it sounds like the charger 
>>>>should be monitoring each bank seperately and charging accordingly. Can 
>>>>I check this with a multimeter to determine if the charging current or 
>>>>voltage is different for each bank? Darrell, Antares, #88
>>
>>
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