[C320-list] FW: Re: Single Line Reefing

Mon Jun 12 07:49:42 PDT 2006

David,

  No, there is no need to do anything to the boom. If you have a shuttle block (I didn't) there should be room to fish it out through existing openings. The trick for pulling the reefing line through the boom is an electrican's snake, used for pulling wire through conduit. 

  Walter
  Selkie #887

David Cardoza <dave at avaloncon.com> wrote:
  I am very late getting in this year. But I have just enough time to look at
this (Reefing is a chore) before it goes in. Beside the turn by turn I
assume you had to drill out the rivets holding the casting on the end of the
boom or the other. Did you re-rivet or screw them in after?

-----Original Message-----
From: C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Walter burnett
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 1:47 AM
To: C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] FW: Re: Single Line Reefing

Jeff,

The Reefing line on Selkie all runs on the port side, including the blocks
in the sail reefing cringles. That lets the reefed part of the saill fall to
starboard, avoiding the "crunch" problem. The line runs straight through the
boom, no shuttle block.

If anyone wants a turn by turn description, let me know, and I'll try to
draw up a sketch.

Walter.
Selkie #887

Jeffrey Hare wrote:
Hi All,

I guess one point MFEMFE (and others) make is worth emphasizing. When
Walter mentions dropping the main to a predefined point, marked on the
halyard, this is a *really* important step. Dropping it too far before
hauling in the reefing line makes it really easy to damage the sail, adds a
huge amount of extra friction and the sail won't really reef acceptably.

I used to make the mistake of easing the main halyard too far, hauling in
the reefing line, then trying to tighten the main halyard to tighten up the
luff of the sail.. Try not to do that. You really want to ease the main
halyard until the Reefing cringle is roughly ?6"? above the boom and lock it
in place. THEN start hauling in the reefing line. This keeps the reefing
line and cringle from pinching the flaked sale against the boom. The luff
will be automatically tightend simply by this process.

My comment about adding a cheek block near the end of the boom was since the
angle the reefing line pulls on the clew of my sail tends to want to
over-tighten the foot but leaves the leach floppy loose, leading to the
awful sail shape I mentioned. I thought some block out there could let me
optimize that angle of pull. Still gotta think about that though...

I really plan to do the C380 MFEMFE did.

ONE QUESTION for MFEMFE: How do YOU run your reefing line?

-Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: MFEMFE MFEMFEM [mailto:selkie2003 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:19 AM
To: Allan.Field at comcast.net; C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] FW: Re: Single Line Reefing

Allan,

I suppose a sacrificial wear patch under the blocks is the ideal solution,
but I'm into my third season and as yet see no signs of wear on the sail.
Perhaps it's the blocks I used (a couple of old Garhaurer's I had on hand)
which tend to stand off the sail.

In my case, the friction reduction was a lot more than "marginal". More
like half the effort. It goes to show, what works for you, works for you.

Walter
Selkie #887

Allan Field wrote:
Walter - I assume that what you are describing is that you are mounting
blocks from the cringles (the new tacks when the sail is reefed). I did
this also and discovered that over time, the blocks wore holes in the sail
where the furled sail was rubbing against a block. The blocks are now gone
and patches are now where there once were blocks. I agree that reefing was
marginally more smooth but not worth the wear and tear on the sail.

Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - #808
Columbia, MD

-----Original Message-----
From: C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of MFEMFE MFEMFEM
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 7:06 PM
To: C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] FW: Re: Single Line Reefing

All,

Catalina (or maybe the delivering dealer) has rigged the single line
reefing a number of different ways over the years. Being a compulsive jury
rigger, I've rigged Selkie at least three different ways, including with the
boom shuttle block and without it. 

I've finally settled on the "C380 article" rig with the single blocks in
the reefing cringles and I can unequivocally opine that method is the
easiest reefing with the least friction of any way that I've tried. Reefing
is now easy to perform under way by simply spilling the pressure from the
main, dropping the halyard to a predetermined point and taking in the reef
line by hand. I don't even need the winch. The friction reduction of running
the line through the blocks instead of the cringles is almost unbelieveable.

Walter 
Selkie #887

Scott Thompson wrote:
Dave: Yours is just like my '99 boat except that line 1 does not end at 
the upper cringle. Instead it goes through this cringle (port to 
starboard) and then back down to be tied off at a padeye on the 
starboard side of the mast, just below the gooseneck. This additional 
part doubles the purchase on the luff, while adding a small amount of 
friction. The padeye also keeps the luff cringle close to the mast once 
you pull it down, which relieves stress on the sail slides near the 
reefing cringle.

The advantage of this system over other single line systems that only 
use one piece of line is that you don't have to pull as much line 
through the forward cringle when you reef. So it has less friction than 
other single line systems that really use only one piece of line. This 
means it doesn't require the blocks on the sail that everyone else is 
talking about. It would work even better if the double block inside the 
boom were higher quality. But it works well for me and so I haven't 
bothered to change it.

Another advantage of this system is that you don't have as much 
unrigging to do if you want to remove the mainsail. Just untie the 
forward and aft lines separately and remove from the cringles.

The system is NOT the same as what is pictured in the manual for my '99 
boat, which is a bizarre system that does not have the reduced friction 
advantages I described above.

OK, now someone will say that they think the block inside the boom is to 
add purchase. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It doesn't. But it does reduce the 
overall friction in the system, IF it's rigged as described above. It's 
almost useless if you rig it the way the manual suggests.

Dave Anderer wrote:
> Ok, now I'm more confused than usual. My rig - which I assumed to be 
> original - is significantly different than what is described in this 
> article.
> 
> I've got one set of reef points, and a single-line system, but with 2 
> lines.
> 
> Line one goes from the port clutches up to the gooseneck, in the boom, 
> around a double-pulley in the boom, back out the gooseneck, down to a 
> block mounted on the mast (where the vang is mounted to the mast), then 
> up through a cringle on the luff, and through a 2nd (higher) cringle on 
> the luff where it is knotted.
> 
> Line 2 is secured at the outboard end of the boom, run inside the boom 
> to the double-pulley, and back out the end of the boom to a cringle on 
> the leech where it is knotted.
> 
> Was that the factory-rigging on a '99? Seems awfully convoluted. The 
> modified 380 scheme seems significantly better.
> 
> [Ah ha! Here is the rig I have: 
> http://www.catalina320.com/gallery/Alternative-Route/IMG_0226 Was that 
> how it came from the factory - I'm guessing not based on the comments 
> with this image.]
> 
> 
> 
> Karl Mielenhausen _/) wrote:
>> Better yet, this article (and many other fine technical articles) are 
>> on the C380IA website....
>>
>> http://www.catalina380.org/article_display.asp?ID=114
>>
>>
>>
>> A nicely organized resource for us also!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Karl Mielenhausen
>>
>> 2000 C320 Hull#690 "Silver Lining"
>>
>> New Bern, NC
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/mielen/
>>
>>
>>
>> From: MFEMFE MFEMFEM [mailto: selkie2003 at yahoo.com]
>>
>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>>
>> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Single Line Reefing
>>
>>
>>
>> Irv,

The pulley idea originally came from a Mainsheet 
>> article in the C380 tech section a year or two ago. If you have the 
>> back issues, you should be able to find it. You rig the 320 reefing 
>> system excatly the same way. Works great.

Walter

>> Selkie #887

Irv Grunes wrote:

>> Stan,
Thanks for the reply. Again yours is an elegant solution and 
>> the fact that
everything is run through pulleys elimintes a lot of 
>> the friction.

If one would do the same to the leech luff, 
>> theneverything would be throgh
pulleys. Thats just a 
>> thought.

Did you do anything to the mainsail to protect it from 
>> any chafe by the
block working against it?
When the sail is down 
>> and furled, that block must just sit there and not
bother the sail 
>> cover.
As you can see I am trying to visualise any and all 
>> problems.
I realised that it will be necessary to change the 
>> reeving on the mast base
blocks so that the existing block will be 
>> the last block before the line
goes into the boom.
Irv 
>> Grunes
Isle of Wight #851

-----Original 
>> Message-----
From: 
>> C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com]On 
>> Behalf Of Stanley
Rogacevicz
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:10 
>> PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Single 
>> Line Reefing

Irv,
I figured my explanation might come up 
>> short. The block stays with/at the
same level (well, maybe a couple 
>> inches below at most) as the reefing
cringle it replaced because 
>> the little line that passes through the
cringle/gromett is only 
>> long enough for attachment. When reefed the block
would end up in 
>> the boom area but since it is being pulled down by the block
at the 
>> mast base that's fine. My addition did involve switching a 
>> couple
block leads around.
I'm assuming as did a couple other 
>> posters that you already have a single
line reefing standard on 
>> your boat --- I did *-- I just wanted to reduce
the friction of the 
>> line passing through the reefing cringle by -
replacing - it with a 
>> block = less friction.
No... I don't remember the block I used. 
>> Many of my projects are simply
find what looks right and make it 
>> work.
Stan

>>> igrunes at comcast.net 6/7/2006 12:48 PM 
>> >>>
Thank you Stan.
I think its a very elegant way to mount that 
>> block.
If you can remember the block you used it would be 
>> appreciated.
Also, with the sail fully raised about where did the 
>> block finally rest?
Did the block rest on the sail or was it at or 
>> just above the boom?
How did you keep the block from flopping 
>> around or did the fact that the
reefing line was through the block, 
>> it kept it from flopping too much.

If I picture it correctly, 
>> there is about two feet from the sail tack to the
luff reefing 
>> cringle, then you would only need to have that two feet to pull
it 
>> down. I assume there was enough room below the boom to pull it 
>> down.
Thanks for the reply.

Irv Grunes
Isle of Wight 
>> #851

-----Original Message-----
From: 
>> C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com]On 
>> Behalf Of Stanley
Rogacevicz
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 
>> 11:42 AM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] 
>> Single Line Reefing

Irv,
I did it, but it's one of the 
>> very few things I never posted a
picture of and it's a bit hard to 
>> describe. I used a large SS washer
(too big to pass through the 
>> grommet) with a small hole on one side
attached to a small block on 
>> the other side of the sail grommet. I
passed a small line (about 
>> 3/16) through the washer, then through the
grommet, then through 
>> the body of the block, then back through the
grommet, back through 
>> the washer, and then tied the two ends together
with a big enough 
>> knot to keep it from passing through the washer. Not
very elegant, 
>> but by not using any sharp metal objects for connections
it didn't 
>> damage the sail and did the job.
Stan
(formerly) Christy 
>> Leigh
c320 #656
Wickford/Narragansett Bay RI

>>> 
>> igrunes at comcast.net 6/7/2006 11:17 AM >>>
Guys,
There was a 
>> thread a year or so back about single line reefing. I 
>> just
sent
the following to my boat partner.
Is there any 
>> album that shows what people used for the luff 
>> pulley
described
below and has anyone actually done this?.
I 
>> don't remember it right now, but there is supposed to be a way 
>> to
make
reefing a single line control by addig a pulley to the 
>> main luff
reefing
cringle. Then reeving the port side reefing 
>> line from the cockpit
stopper to
the deck mast pulley(where it 
>> now is), up through the new luff reefing
pulley, down to a new mast 
>> base pulley, into the boom then to the
leech
cringle as we now 
>> have it, then to tie off at the boom. The key being
a
pulley on 
>> a strap of some kind on the luff reefing cringle. The 
>> main
objection to this as I remember it, was all of the resistance 
>> that is
encountered by the lines going through all of the pulleys. 
>> This would
eliminate the need to go on deck in possible bad weather 
>> to reef the
main.
Irv Grunes
Isle of Wight 
>> #851

>> __________________________________________________
Do You 
>> Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection 
>> around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 