[C320-list] loose rudder post & bent shaft
Arthur Gates
argates2nd at earthlink.net
Wed Apr 25 08:20:28 PDT 2007
Jeff,
Following Chris's e-mail this morning, my priority try is to drop the
rudder down a foot into a dug pit in order to get access to the top of the
rudder. Then grind off the aft top 6" of the rudder to lower that section
part of an inch, and then reglass/barrier coat and Trinidad SR.
Here is Chris's e-mail of this am: "In my opinion since you appear to have
a fairly minor bend in the rudder shaft, you have two easy options that I
would try before cutting and sleeving the shaft or replacing the rudder.
First, I'd try the come-along again. Note that three days or three minutes
are the same to steel, it won't develop a 'set' by holding it there for any
period of time. You have to bend it past the point you want because there
will always be a certain amount of spring back. You probably need to open
up the gap at aft end about an inch before releasing the come-along in
order to end up with enough clearance. You will just have to experiment and
go slow.
The second option is to drop the rudder, grind a half inch off of the top
at the back and re-glass it. I doubt the altered geometry will affect
handling significantly."
Jeff et. al., any other thoughts?
Rollie #182
> [Original Message]
> From: Jeffrey Hare <Catalina at thehares.com>
> To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Date: 4/25/07 11:08:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post & bent shaft
>
> Hi,
>
> Have you considered dropping the rudder, and taking it to a machine shop
to
> have them attempt to bend it back?
> Seems like it could be considerably less expensive to try that.
>
> I would be a bit concerned about trying to bend the rudder in-place,
because
> that's putting quite a bit of stress on the rudder post mounting assembly.
> Granted it should be quite strong, but I'd still wonder whether I could be
> damaging something else.
>
> -Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arthur Gates [mailto:argates2nd at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:56 AM
> To: C320-List
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post & bent shaft
>
> Peter, Scott, and Chris, Bousum, et. al.,
>
> My rudder shaft is bent aft about 1/2" just below the hull from a hard
> grounding last week. The aft tip of the rudder rubs the hull.
> Do you think the 2 strips of UHMW tape at the top aft of the shaft would
> help move the rudder tip forrward?
> There is no play in the rudder.
> We tried straightening with a come along secured to the wing keel for
three
> days, openned a 5/8" space, but the space closed when the come along was
> released.
> According to Gerry Douglas this week, there is no rudder bearing or
bushing
> in the rudder shaft. There is a brass ring visible at the bottom of the
> shaft and ours is tight to the shaft.
> We have sanded to the hull matting and off the top of the rudder but there
> is still a slight rubbing -- before barrier coat and bottom paint are
> applied.
> A new rudder is now $1,800 + frt and removal/installation labor.
> Rollie #182
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com>
> > To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> > Date: 11/13/06 11:52:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> >
> > Scott .... Thanks for your explanation. The rudder shaft is set back
> > from
> the leading edge of the rudder as you indicate. When we sighted down the
> leading edge of the rudder we estimated a point where the shaft would
'exit'
> the base if it went that far. This is where movement should be nil if the
> shaft was perfectly straight. We observed about 4" of lateral movement
when
> the wheel was turned lock to lock.
> >
> > Pete Clancy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Scott Thompson<mailto:sthompson at toad.net>
> > To: C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> >
> >
> > Peter: I can't check a 320 until Surprise gets hauled (which could
> > happen today), but on many boats the rudder shaft is a bit aft of the
> > leading edge of the rudder and so sighting the leading edge is not a
> > reliable way to tell if the rudder shaft is bent. The pivot can be a
> > bit further aft than this, and not parallel to the leading edge. As
> > long as there is some point on the bottom of the rudder that does not
> > move laterally when you turn the rudder then the shaft is not bent.
> >
> > Rudders are designed this way to help reduce the stress on the
steering
> > gear when weather helm occurs. The part of the rudder forward of the
> > shaft actually helps turn the rudder back to centerline a little bit
in
> > this situation. On some boats this effect is fairly pronounced: You
> > can let go of the helm with 10 degrees of weather helm with
absolutely
> > no rounding up. This is called a "balanced" rudder. Of course it's
> > balanced only in the sense that you don't have to fight it. The
> weather
> > helm is still there, it's just that you can't feel it in the helm.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Burti wrote:
> > > This sounds like your rudder is bent back from a hard grounding.
> > If
> your tube is sound and the rudder is not binding, you are probably OK. I
had
> to replace mine last year because it bent 4" out of plumb laterally and
was
> binding in the tube from the tube kinking a little as well.
> > >
> > > You really can't repair it without cutting and sleeving it. The
> stainless pipe work hardens from bending and trying to rebend it will make
> it brittle if it doesn't break.
> > >
> > > Chris Burti
> > > "Commitment"
> > > Catalina 320, #867,
> > > Farmville, NC
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com>>
> > > To: C320-List
> <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:56:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > Re Rudder Post ........ My 1995 C320 also exhibited a slight bit
> > of
> play when I pushed it back and forth. I don't think this is significant.
We
> also made a visual check to see if it was in line with the keel (it was)
and
> square to the waterline (appeared to be). I then turned the wheel lock to
> lock several times while an engineer friend sighted the rudder as it
turned
> from directly behind the boat. We also looked down from the top leading
edge
> of the rudder as it turned. We discovered about 4" of side-to-side
movement
> at the base of the rudder. That is, the 'fulcrum point' at the bottom of
the
> rudder should have remained stationary as the rudder turned. It did not. I
> don't know if this is normal or whether there is a slight bend or warp
> somewhere in the rudder post. Any thoughts? Still trying to find out if
our
> boats have a rudder bearing or just a fiberglass shaft in which the rudder
> turns.
> > >
> > > Peter Clancy
> > > AROBAN C320 #222
> > > Miami, FL
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Jeff
> Church<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net>>
> > > To:
>
C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>
> >
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:17 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > Good question. Mine moves maybe 3/32" but I didn't think that was
a
> problem and the Catalina broker's technician told me not to be concerned
> about it. I checked a few others in the yard. Some have almost no play and
> some move more than mine.
> > >
> > > JeffC
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: WindSwept
> > > To: C320-List
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > What is the symptom that indicates a need to shim the rudder
post?
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chris Burti"
>
<cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cbu
> rti at yahoo.com>>>
> > > To: "C320-List"
>
<c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list
> @catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 5:41 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > This is essentially the recommended solution often used on
older
> > > boats...except we used milk bottles or 2 liter soft drink
bottles
> (better
> > > price-same properties). My old Cal is still fine and it has been
> about 5
> > > years now since I shimmed her rudder post.
> > >
> > > Chris Burti
> > > "Commitment"
> > > Catalina 320, #867,
> > > Farmville, NC
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: STINKIN GRINGO
>
<bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bou
> sum at webtv.net>>>
> > > To: C320-List
>
<c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list
> @catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2006 8:06:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > Today I dropped the rudder 8 inches and put two strips of UHMW
> tape 1/2"
> > > wide by 5-6 inches long up the post with the sticky side towards
> the
> > > fiberglass . This took out all the slop, time will tell how long
> it will
> > > last.It took less than and hour.I was going to machine two thin
> wall
> > > bearings and grind out the tube and glue them in . But the
> shimming
> > > method was simple so we will give it a whirl, I will let the
list
> know
> > > how it goes. You can buy UHMW tape at APS. Ken #711 going to
vegas
> > > tomarrow to spend the money I saved.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
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