[C320-list] Golf Cart Batteries in Boats

Wed Oct 24 16:54:34 PDT 2007

Just a little over 800.00 for the two 4D Lifeline GPL-4DL.  Fully sealed, no
interval servicing plus the other benefits mentioned in your email.  Also
added AGM Starting battery.

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of Darrell
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:00 PM
To: C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Golf Cart Batteries in Boats

Curious what they cost?  It looks like the amp hours are comparable to my
interstate 4D 12V wet cells. Are the benifits no spills, faster charging,
slower discharge at a resting state?

Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Fitzgibbon" <chuters at earthlink.net>
To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Golf Cart Batteries in Boats

> Lifeline Marine Batteries manufactures a 6 vdc AGM  battery.  We just
> recently switched from the two wet cell 4D's that came with the boat to 2
> x
> LifeLine GPL-4DL AGM Batteries.  The fit perfectly in existing battery
> location.
>
> Shortcut to: http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatterysize.php
>
> jack (#441)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Hare
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:40 AM
> To: 'C320-List'
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Golf Cart Batteries in Boats
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> The group has discussed this before, and remains somewhat divided, but the
> main reason they aren't offered, is battery and charging experts tend to
> agree that they really don't offer a capacity advantage in 12v
> applications
> over their rated life.
>
> I've offered technical articles written by battery / charging engineers
> that
> explain why.  I've not yet seen an electrical engineering article that
> shows
> that GCs in the series/parallel configuration we're talking about being
> able
> to supply more usable power than parallel 12v batts.  I've seen lots of
> anecdotal articles that say it's a good idea, but fail to mention the
> practical things that mitigate the theoretical advantage.
>
> If someone can locate a battery mfg that would recommend using *their* 6V
> GC
> batteries in series/parallel config over *their* 12v parallel deep cycle
> batteries as a way to provide extra capacity, please pass along the name
> and
> we'll get to the bottom of this.  So far Exide and the Rolls guys have
> said,
> for a fixed given cubic volume,  use paralleled 12v batts in a 12v
> application, and paralleled 6v in 6v applications for best results.
>
> Why?
>
> 1) GCs double the number of terminal connection points. These reduce the
> voltage available at load and reduce the usable AH.  Over time this gets
> worse as terminals tarnish at the connection points.  If you clean your
> battery terminals and posts regularly and have super high quality sealed
> cables, this helps mitigate the connection losses.
>
> 2) Unless all 4 GC batteries are exactly the same age and # cycles, and
> equalized to be nearly identical, each series pair of GC batteries is
> always
> limited to the available power of the weaker one. The weaker one will fail
> faster as well.  The 6 cells in a 4D deep cycle battery have a much higher
> likelihood of being matched and are more easily equalized because they
> were
> all mfg at the same time with the same materials.  Not so with GC
> batteries.
> There is no requirement that paralleled batteries be that closely matched.
>
> 3) GC batteries are great in parallel for 6V applications, but in
> series/parallel (12v) they suffer much more from mismatch than parallel
> 12v
> batts.
>
> 4) It's a myth that you can just replace on battery if it fails.  Doing
> that
> does you no favors in the capacity or reliability department, which is
> what
> this whole discussion is about.
>
> 5) It's easier to find a 12v replacement battery in a pinch than it is to
> find a 6V GC battery.
>
> Now, I know some will swear that you've done this with spectacular
> results,
> but I doubt you've run the controlled tests to see what your true amp hour
> results are.  If so, feel free to publish the results and how they were
> measured.
>
> You can pretty much disregard the AH ratings as a way of comparing a 6V
> battery (X) with a 12V battery (Y) unless you know for a fact that both
> batteries were tested using the same load current and discharge
> percentages.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Robert E. Sloat
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:38 AM
> To: C320-List
> Subject: [C320-list] Golf Cart Batteries in Boats
>
> John and Karl-I am curious why sailboat manufacturers don't offer golf
> cart
> batteries as stock items on their new boats?  I have yet to see them even
> offered as an option on a new sailboat.
>
> Bob Sloat
> Savannah 894
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Frost" <john at frostnet.net>
> To: "'C320-List'" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] FW: Re: Xantrex charger - battery bank
> setupwithstartbattery
>
>
>> Thanks Karl. I just got to look at the photos this morning and they
>> really
>> helped. I'm on my way to St Louis this morning to see my new boat in
>> person
>> and meet with the installer of all my new "toys". His banker will soon
>> love
>> me.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> John Frost
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Karl Mielenhausen
>> _/)
>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 8:49 AM
>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>> Subject: [C320-list] FW: Re: Xantrex charger - battery bank setup
>> withstartbattery
>>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Congrats on the purchase of a new C320!!!
>>
>> I added a Walmart Maxx 1N battery as a starter, just forward of where my
>> 4D's were. About the same time, I converted the 4D's to golf car
>> batteries
>> (you will probably do that when your 4D's die in 4-5 years).
>>
>> The stock 4D's are a combination battery, not designed for true deep
>> cycle,
>> like golf car batteries are.
>>
>> I took the easy wiring solution and utilized the existing "1-2-Both"
>> battery
>> switch. I put the starter battery on #2 and the house bank (all 4 golf
>> car
>> batteries) on #1. My Xantrex charger has 2 legs, so one goes to the
>> starter
>> battery and the other to the house bank. All batteries need to be the
>> same
>> type (ie. lead acid, AGM, etc) for this to work but the charger seems to
>> do
>> a good job of dividing its output to charge the bank that needs it the
>> most,
>> which is in my case, always the house bank. In fact, I leave the battery
>> selector on #1 for engine starting and alternator charging, and hold the
>> starting battery in reserve IF the house bank will not start the engine.
>>
>> One option you might consider, especially if you plan on a lot of
>> cruising
>> and anchoring out, would be a better alternator/regulator. My stock
>> Hitachi
>> 55 amp with its internal regulator is pretty anemic when it comes to
>> "refilling" the 440 AH house bank. I'm sure I get a decent output for
>> only
>
>> a
>> few minutes and then it drops down to avoid overcharging. A smart,
>> 3-stage
>> external regulator coupled with a 100 A alternator would be much better.
>> Or
>> you could buy a portable Honda generator and run the 120VAC onboard
>> battery
>> charger when you get to anchor!!!
>>
>> Dig around the Photo Gallery for more ideas....
>>
>> http://www.catalina320.com/gallery/album86
>>
>> http://www.catalina320.com/gallery/6-Volt-Batteries-and-Solar-Panel
>>
>> http://www.catalina320.com/gallery/album72
>>
>> http://www.catalina320.com/gallery/StartingBattShelf
>>
>> http://www.catalina320.com/gallery/album31
>>
>>
>>
>> Karl Mielenhausen
>>
>> 2000 C320 Hull#690 "Silver Lining"
>>
>> New Bern, NC
>>
>> http://pages.suddenlink.net/kmielen/
>>
>> From: John Frost [mailto: john at frostnet.net]
>>
>> To: c320-list at catalina320.com
>>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:58:39 -0500
>>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Xantrex charger - battery bank setup with
>> startbattery
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to add a starting battery to my new 320. Where have you
>> folksfound to be a good place for a third battery and what size and
>> switching didyou use?Best Regards,John Frost(256) 650-0335 -----Original
>> Message-----From:
>>
>
c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com[mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]
>> On Behalf Of amshd2 at aol.comSent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:55 AMTo:
>> c320-list at catalina320.comSubject: Re: [C320-list] Xantrex charger -
>> battery
>> bank setup withstartbatteryPhilI have the set up you described with a
>> Xantrex Freedom 20 and 27 group startbattery and 2 4Ds. The 4Ds are wired
>> together and charge together.? It worksgreat. I also have a
>> keyed?isolator/Eng kill ?switch for the?start battery.?When at anchor or
>> sailing I?turn it off.?This way I do not draw from thestart battery
>> except
>> for starting.??The switch?helps in case a guest does something to run
>> the?batteries?downover night.?I run the refer 24/7 as long as the ?boat
>> is
>> in the?water.? I run the referon the hook
>> but do turn it do to around 2 or 3 and take along some ice.?Will motoring
>> I
>> turn it back up all the way. Tony  -----Original Message-----From:
>> sholdr at aol.comTo: c320-list at catalina320.comSent: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:44
>> amSubject: [C320-list] Xantrex charger - battery bank setup with start
>> batteryAm changing to Xantrex charger and replacing my 2? 4D house
>> batteries
>> andadding a start battery -- It seems since the Xantrex has 3 channels it
>> would bebest to charge each battery separately but combine the house
>> batteries (Position 2)?(automatically if possible) when in use keeping
>> the
>> start battery separate(Position 1) except in an emergency (Both).? We are
>> on
>> a lake,overnight occasionally, no A/C, when at dock run the Refer on
>> shore
>> power.? Is it possible/necessary/preferable to separately charge the 2
>> house
>> batteries oris this more trouble than it's worth?ThanksPhil HansenCamelot
>>
>
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