[C320-list] Downwind Preventer - was Whisker Pole Length

[Scott Thompson]

I think you have this backwards, Orlando.  If the strain becomes less 
and the leverage greater as we move the attachment point towards the 
gooseneck then why don't we attach the preventer near the gooseneck? 
It's because there is less load on the preventer and boom in an 
accidental jibe when the preventer is rigged towards the outboard end. 
This is the same principle by which boats designed more for racing 
typically have the mainsheet attached close to the end of the boom, with 
a traveller running through the cockpit, or sometimes aft of it.

Also, I haven't followed Brion Toss's "SparTalk" forum for some time, 
but I'm pretty sure I recall him at one point recommending a setup very 
similar to Warren's, using a pennant running to the outboard end of the 
boom.

Scott Thompson

Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com wrote:
> Quick reminder, you get more leverage and less strain on the boom by doing mid boom or 3/4, never go to the end of the boom to rig a preventer on (my caveat here) most boats....Brian Toss mentioned that on his website
> ----------------------------------
> Regards,
> OD
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan S. Field" [allan.field at verizon.net]
> Sent: 12/13/2008 01:29 PM EST
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] Downwind Preventer - was Whisker Pole Length
> 
> 
> 
> Sea Shadow is rigged for downwind sailing differently than is War De Mar and
> I will try to describe what we did.  Note that the idea for this came from
> Orlando Duran - I give him credit the first 2 times I share this then the
> idea is all mine!
> 
> The boom sheet on our boats runs thru 2 blocks.  On the aft most block, I
> hung a long shackle from the bail that the block attaches to.  This shackle
> is probably 3 inches long.  From each of the forward deck cleats, I hung
> long shackles probably about 4 inches long and hung a single block off each
> one of them.  The reason for the long shackles here is to leave room for
> mooring lines.  Moving aft, I hung a single block on the base of each
> stanchion port and starboard sides.
> 
> At the base of the forward part of each side of the aft
> wraparound-stanchion, I attached a block with cam cleat.
> 
> Now for the rigging.  I have 2 preventer lines, one for port, the other for
> starboard (red line for port, green for starboard).  I went to West Marine's
> rigger and had him splice on the end of each preventer line a heavy duty
> snap shackle, the kinds with the spring loaded snaps.  These 2 shackles are
> then attached to the long shackle on the mast bail previously installed (see
> above).  The preventer lines then run forward to the blocks on the forward
> cleats then back through the blocks at the base of the stanchions and
> through the block with a cam cleat.  Once set-up, I can control the boom
> 100% from the cockpit.
> 
> I am a bit uncomfortable with the preventer lines coming back only to the
> aft-most boom bail.  I would much prefer that they come all the way back
> like Warren has done.  That will be a winter project to figure out how to do
> this better but without interfering with the dodger.
> 
> Unlike Warren, I was hesitant to use the anchor roller for any of this.
> Worst case scenario on Sea Shadow is that the boom breaks/bends mid-boom or
> a deck cleat pulls out.  Worst case scenario on War De Mar is the anchor
> plate gives way, the forestay breaks and the mast comes down.  (NOTE: I hung
> a block off the anchor bail and run the spinnaker tack line through the
> block and up to the ATN Tacker.  A rigger saw this and cautioned me that
> this puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the anchor base and there is a
> danger of it pulling out.  But the maximum apparent wind I will fly the
> spinnaker is 12 knots; gets any higher, the spinnaker comes down.  And yes,
> I fully expect to take some list-grief over this!)
> 
> Our downwind pole is mounted to the mast on a track so is fairly easy to
> handle, much easier than when deck and/or stanchion mounted.
> 
> With this set-up, I have no hesitation about going DDW (dead downwind) under
> any conditions.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Allan S. Field
> Sea Shadow - #808
> Columbia, MD
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of warren updike
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 4:12 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Whisker Pole Length
> 
> No photos, sorry. She's under wraps now. Preventer is used for the main.
> 
> Since it is not recommended attaching a preventer mid-boom, I followed
> mfgr.'s recommendation and attached a pendant of twisted nylon to the end of
> the mast with a thimble spliced into the working end. The length is enough
> to bring the thimble over the deck when the boom is well overboard. I use a
> bungee attached to the main sheet thingy to secure the pendant when not in
> use. This makes it quite easy underway with the boom outboard to unhook the
> pendant attach the preventer line and secure the preventer. 
> 
> I accept the risk of starting a whole thread on how to attach/run the
> preventer as I've not yet found the ideal method. Typically, I use a block
> attached to the anchor roller to turn the preventer bringing it back to the
> cockpit. It's faster and safer if you can control it from the cockpit. Yet,
> I welcome any and all ideas on how to do it better. When not in use, the
> block is pulled out of the way with a bit of light bungee tied to a vertical
> on the pulpit. I don't bother to untie this, just slide it down the pulpit
> to free the block for use.  Yes, it is necessary to unhook the preventer
> line and run around the mast when after gybing. What price safety?
> 
> My pole is two part telescopic with 2" aluminum tubing. It's an old dude I
> bought off the internet when I had a C25. It was a major reason for
> upgrading to the C320. I had to protect my investment in the pole, all $150
> of it. Don't think I could manage a fixed pole of 10 or 12'
> 
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Stanley [mailto:brucestanley36 at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:19 PM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Whisker Pole Length
> 
> Thanks Warren
> do you have any photos of the preventer?
> is it a preventer for the Main or Genoa?
> is your Whisker Pole a fixed length, or telescopic one?
> 
> Bruce Stanley C320 #1084 "Fantastic Lady"
> Sydney Australia
> ========================
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM, warren updike <wupdike at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have a 12' pole I use with a 150% jib. I rarely use all 12 feet.
>>
>> I'm using the pole mostly on downwind runs while wing'n'wing. It holds the
>> jib out nicely and is easy to deploy and retireve. I also rig a preventer
>> on
>> the main as a precaution. I've had days where I've run N or S on the
>> Chesapeake Bay for hours with this rig. Well worth the investment.
>>
>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>> Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
>> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bruce Stanley [mailto:brucestanley36 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 4:09 AM
>> To: C320-List
>> Subject: [C320-list] Whisker Pole Length
>>
>> The Whisker Pole Length is given as the J measurement.
>> This is stated as 12'4".
>> stupid question but I am trying to Measure Twice before I cut ...
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
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