[C320-list] Reversing can be easier

[Bruce Stanley]

well said Chris

thanks
Bruce Stanley

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know about the CD-28, I have no experience on one, but there used
> to
> be a pretty substantial body of literature on the exacerbation of prop walk
> caused by the configuration of an aperture and a full keel. My experience
> on
> wooden full keel boats years ago is that they would go in one direction,
> usually to port. My Ski Nautique does the same thing, so the technique is a
> little throttle to move, then neutral to steer, then throttle and so on.
>
> Our C-320 backs where I steer her once water is flowing over the rudder.
> Once a fin keel (a wing keel is the same as a fin in this regard) is
> actually moving in reverse it will steer very nicely in any direction you
> wish.
>
> The two most common errors I see in skippers having problems backing modern
> designs is trying to steer as soon as they shift into reverse, yet while
> the
> boat is still moving almost imperceptibly forward. If their turn in the
> fairway is to port for a starboard slip, trying to turn to starboard in
> reverse while moving forward will invariably swing the stern to port on a
> fin keel and it has little to do with prop walk although that makes it
> worse. The second mistake is putting the rudder hard over. After ten or 15
> degrees the rudder just becomes a big brake, stalls and has little turning
> effect.
>
> I tell skippers who ask how to make it look so easy that you should never
> look back until you can see the boat moving in reverse. Mark dead center on
> your rudder and never turn the wheel more than a half a turn while backing.
> Be patient, have faith and don't drive any faster than you are willing
> to hit something hard.
>
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Robert Seastream <
> robert.seastream at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I HAVE been on a full keel boat with the prop in the rudder aperture...a
> > Cape Dory 28.  She backed straight as a die, which I credited to the full
> > keel.
> > I suspect such a keel would resist sideways movement more than fin or
> wing
> > keels.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Jun 19, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >>
> >> I would never do that.... :)
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> Regards,
> >> OD
> >>
> >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jon Vez" [jonvez at comcast.net]
> >> Sent: 06/19/2008 05:16 AM
> >> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier
> >>
> >> Orlando,
> >>
> >> You are right, it's no different than understanding how the wind affects
> >> different topside configurations etc. All boats have unique
> >> characteristics
> >> that can be used to your advantage--but you had to add that last comment
> >> to
> >> get Adam going didn't you :)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jon Vez
> >> Solstice #582
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> >> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:45 PM
> >> To: C320-List
> >> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier
> >>
> >> Of course you knew I had to chime in on this... :)
> >>
> >> When I bought cl 3 #112 it came with the 3-bladed  prop--lots of prop
> >> walk--ALL props, no matter what, have prop walk, fluid dynamics and
> all--
> >> but I learned that that's not bad thing at all, I used it lots of times
> to
> >> get out of slips without a lot of room, etc. Once you understand the
> >> amount
> >> of 'walk' your prop has, you learn to use it and not complain about. In
> >> reverse, when going forward, it was like having power brakes, it would
> >> stop
> >> the boat RIGHT NOW...
> >>
> >> 3 years later, I purchased (from this list by the way) a Martec 2-blade
> >> folding prop, less prop walk--again not always a good thing--and it took
> a
> >> bit of getting used to not having as much stopping power in reverse.
> >>
> >> My point in this is that you simply need to get used to your particular
> >> prop
> >> and take advantage of it's advantages and disadvantages...
> >>
> >> Oh yeah, dumping that 3-bladed prop was the best thing ever for boat
> speed
> >> under sail, getting rid of that 3-bladed anchor..er, prop, made that
> boat
> >> competitive....
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> Regards,
> >> OD
> >>
> >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chris Burti" [clburti at gmail.com]
> >> Sent: 06/18/2008 08:12 PM
> >> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> >> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier
> >>
> >> I respectfully disagree that 320's exhibit significant prop walk with a
> >> factory prop. I attribute most of the backing problems that I've
> observed
> >> to
> >> poor technique. I've been backing our 320 into slips everywhere we go in
> >> all
> >> wind conditions for five years with little or no problems. We have a
> >> factory
> >> three bladed prop that works fine as long as I don't let the barnacles
> get
> >> growing on it. Our approach fairway is less than 60' wide and that is
> >> adequate to get control in reverse. the only time I see any evidence of
> >> significant swinging of the stern from the prop is if the water is thin
> >> the
> >> keel is dragging and I 'm fighting a cross wind.
> >>
> >> Seriously, if you want to experience prop walk at its worst, get out on
> a
> >> full keel sailboat with the prop in the rudder aperture or try backing a
> >> single screw inboard ski boat. After that experience I suspect that
> you'll
> >> never complain bout a fin keel boat again.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Bruce Stanley <
> brucestanley36 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Robert Seastream writes about poor Reversing.
> >>> My circumstances mean that I must reverse into a tight marine pen
> (slip).
> >>> The Kiwi Feathering Prop really does deliver positive and immediate
> >>>
> >> thrust,
> >>
> >>> with little or no Prop walk.
> >>> I am sure there are other props that do this too, but not a factory
> >>> fitted
> >>> fixed 3 blader.
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Bruce Stanley
> >>> Sydney
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Robert Seastream <
> >>> robert.seastream at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Backing at all (let alone straight) is something I simply can't get my
> >>>>
> >>> boat
> >>>
> >>>> to do, so I don't rely on it as part of the docking process.
> >>>> I've told my wife that when docking, if we miss we'll simply circle
> and
> >>>>
> >>> try
> >>>
> >>>> again, since we have little/no effective reverse/braking power.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chris Burti
> >> Farmville, NC
> >>
> >> - -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >>
> >> - -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
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> received
> >> this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from
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> >> computer.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Chris Burti
> Farmville, NC
>