[C320-list] Reversing can be easier

Wed Jun 25 11:08:13 PDT 2008

For some of the lazy folks who don't like to sail unless they go over 5kn, a folder is perfect because it allows you to keep speed at lower wind speeds
----------------------------------
Regards,
OD

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

----- Original Message -----
From: catalina
Sent: 06/25/2008 11:04 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier

Not to get into folding/feathering vs fixed prop debate, but here's what
we noticed.   Wing keel/135 genoa/full main/gori-3 blade folding.

With winds above 10 kts, we mostly notice a change in the boat's
acceleration.  Our rig isn't very well tuned to heavy air at the moment.

Below 10kts, the difference can be pretty dramatic.  This past weekend, we
easily sailed between ~4.5-5kts in 8-10kts of wind on a close reach with
less than 1 foot seas.  Frequently our headway speed was at around half
the TRUE wind speed.

I define "easily" by running up the laundry and only having to mess with
it every 10 minutes or so.

With our 3 blade fixed, we would be lucky to reach 4kts in any those wind
conditions and only if we kept on top of the sail trim.

If there were big swells or bumpy conditions, we'd never bother to sail in
winds below 8kts because we'd only make a couple knots headway and the
sails would bang around.

Another interesting side effect is that the helm feels lighter (wonder if
it's the turbulence around the rudder that the fixed prop created?)

-Jeff

> Exactly how much increase (over 3-blade fixed) in "speed under sail" do
> you
> get with folding/feathering prop in, say, 10 to 12 knot wind on 60 degree
> reach or beam reach?
>
> Len
> AQUA5   #1070
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 7:44 AM, <Orlando.Duran at averydennison.com> wrote:
>
>> I never had any issues with the 3-bladed prop relative to performance or
>> 'prop-walk'--it always worked extremely well.
>>
>> I just hated the fact that I had to give up 1kn+ under sail to get that
>> performance...it is a sailboat after all...
>>
>> Admittedly, in So Cal we never have to worry about currents, cross-winds
>> in
>> the marina (all slips are oriented upwind and downwind), winterizing :),
>> etc
>>
>> I just didn't see the benefit of the prop vs losing speed under sail.
>>
>> On my 440 I installed a 3-bladed Flex-o-Fold prop and love it...although
>> not self-pitching in reverse, it works great and of course, under sail,
>> no
>> performance problems
>> ----------------------------------
>> Regards,
>> OD
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:  [crashley at gte.net]
>> Sent: 06/25/2008 07:36 AM
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier
>>
>> Orlando,
>>
>> That's odd. I found that stopping (and reversing) was a chore with the
>> factory 3 blade fixed prop and was much better with the Autostream
>> feathering prop I installed a couple years ago. It has independently
>> adjustable fwd and rev pitch, although I've never had to change the
>> settings
>> that it came with.
>>
>> CRA
>> Rosebud #882
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com>
>> To: "C320-List" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier
>>
>>
>> Of course you knew I had to chime in on this... :)
>>
>> When I bought cl 3 #112 it came with the 3-bladed  prop--lots of prop
>> walk--ALL props, no matter what, have prop walk, fluid dynamics and
>> all--
>>  but I learned that that's not bad thing at all, I used it lots of times
>> to
>> get out of slips without a lot of room, etc. Once you understand the
>> amount
>> of 'walk' your prop has, you learn to use it and not complain about. In
>> reverse, when going forward, it was like having power brakes, it would
>> stop
>> the boat RIGHT NOW...
>>
>> 3 years later, I purchased (from this list by the way) a Martec 2-blade
>> folding prop, less prop walk--again not always a good thing--and it took
>> a
>> bit of getting used to not having as much stopping power in reverse.
>>
>> My point in this is that you simply need to get used to your particular
>> prop and take advantage of it's advantages and disadvantages...
>>
>> Oh yeah, dumping that 3-bladed prop was the best thing ever for boat
>> speed
>> under sail, getting rid of that 3-bladed anchor..er, prop, made that
>> boat
>> competitive....
>> ----------------------------------
>> Regards,
>> OD
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Burti" [clburti at gmail.com]
>> Sent: 06/18/2008 08:12 PM
>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Reversing can be easier
>>
>> I respectfully disagree that 320's exhibit significant prop walk with a
>> factory prop. I attribute most of the backing problems that I've
>> observed
>> to
>> poor technique. I've been backing our 320 into slips everywhere we go in
>> all
>> wind conditions for five years with little or no problems. We have a
>> factory
>> three bladed prop that works fine as long as I don't let the barnacles
>> get
>> growing on it. Our approach fairway is less than 60' wide and that is
>> adequate to get control in reverse. the only time I see any evidence of
>> significant swinging of the stern from the prop is if the water is thin
>> the
>> keel is dragging and I 'm fighting a cross wind.
>>
>> Seriously, if you want to experience prop walk at its worst, get out on
>> a
>> full keel sailboat with the prop in the rudder aperture or try backing a
>> single screw inboard ski boat. After that experience I suspect that
>> you'll
>> never complain bout a fin keel boat again.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Bruce Stanley
>> <brucestanley36 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Robert Seastream writes about poor Reversing.
>>> My circumstances mean that I must reverse into a tight marine pen
>>> (slip).
>>> The Kiwi Feathering Prop really does deliver positive and immediate
>>> thrust,
>>> with little or no Prop walk.
>>> I am sure there are other props that do this too, but not a factory
>>> fitted
>>> fixed 3 blader.
>>> Cheers
>>> Bruce Stanley
>>> Sydney
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Robert Seastream <
>>> robert.seastream at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Backing at all (let alone straight) is something I simply can't get
>>> my
>>> boat
>>> > to do, so I don't rely on it as part of the docking process.
>>> > I've told my wife that when docking, if we miss we'll simply circle
>>> and
>>> try
>>> > again, since we have little/no effective reverse/braking power.
>>> >
>>> > Bob
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Burti
>> Farmville, NC
>>
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>

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