[C320-list] First time out and QUESTIONS!

[Dennis Harris]

Most people, that I have observed docking stern first, go down the fairway 
bow first to reach their slip, then turn directly away from their slip, and 
next, shift into reverse to try to enter the slip.  This looks good when it 
happens correctly, but often, a combination of wind, current, amount of 
power applied, degree of prop fouling, judgement error, and rudder position 
result in some sort of misalignment with the slip and lots of frustration as 
they try to correct the boat's position with lots of power in reverse, thus 
agravating the prop walk issue.  Because the above conditions are always a 
little different at each docking, it's hard to guess exactly what is going 
to happen until one is very familiar with the boat's handling 
characteristics.  Even then, it often is not very pretty.

I've adopted a technique where I get the boat backing outside the fairway 
where there is lots of room (so I don't have to worry about drifting down or 
being blown down onto other boats in the fairway, or getting trapped with 
not enough room to maneuver).  I put the boat in reverse outside the 
fairway, keep the rudder amidship until the boat gets way on in reverse.  I 
put on a fair amount of power, and just wait a bit until all the forces 
resolve exactly where/when the boat is going to start backing, and then, I 
just drive the boat in reverse down the fairway and make a turn into the 
slip in reverse just as if I was driving the boat bow first.  Once you get 
the boat moving, it's relatively easy to control in reverse if you have one 
or two knots in reverse (as you will see after you have done a series of 
figure 8's as someone else has suggested).  The trip down the fairway gives 
me sufficient time to see exactly how the wind and current (I have only wind 
to contend with in my home slip) are affecting the boat motion, thus 
enabling me to adjust my turn accordingly.  I find this technique allows me 
to enter the slip directly on the first attempt almost every time.  And if 
it does go wrong, just shift into forward and power back out and start over. 
It looks a little strange in a long fairway, but it works well.  If you have 
a crosswind or a downwind approach, you will have to back a little faster to 
keep the bow from dropping off to one side, but you can check/reduce the 
reverse speed just prior to making the reverse turn into the slip by 
momentarily shifting the engine into forward just long enough to slow the 
boat, but not long enough to stop the reverse movement of the boat. As you 
make your turn, you can shift the transmission in or out of gear as 
appropriate, using the reverse throttle and prop walk to fine trim the turn 
as required as an assist to rudder position. If the crosswind or downwind is 
too high so that I don't have good control, then I abort and make a bow 
first landing temporarily until the wind subsides enough so I can redock in 
reverse.  Since I single hand usually, I want to take my hands off the wheel 
to deal with dock lines, so I tighten down the wheel brake sufficiently that 
it will hold the rudder in position, but not so tight that I can't override 
the brake manually.  You don't want the rudder to slam into the stops when 
going in reverse because you can damage the boat's steering mechanism...it 
will do that if something doesn't hold the rudder in position. Every boat 
owner has his own technique, but you might want to give this approach a try 
and see how you like it.

Dennis Harris C320 #694

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Thompson" <surprise at thompson87.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] First time out and QUESTIONS!


> I've found that steering in reverse also is made harder if you use too 
> much throttle.  Best to apply a good bit of throttle at first to get 
> moving, but then throttle back to idle, or even shift into neutral, and 
> coast.  The boat steers beautifully while coasting backwards.  Once you 
> are moving, only use the throttle as little as may be needed to keep 
> moving.  You will not be able to steer until you are moving.
>
> The key insight is that when you are motoring forward the boat behaves as 
> if you have an outboard engine.  That's because (as Chris points out 
> below) the large rudder just aft of the prop is able to deflect the high 
> speed prop wash to give you a steering effect similar to pointing the prop 
> to the side.  This lets you easily make sharp turns even with almost no 
> forward speed.
>
> When you are motoring backward, this doesn't work because the prop wash is 
> moving away from the rudder -- not towards it.  Motoring in reverse is 
> more like sailing -- the rudder doesn't respond unless the boat is moving 
> through the water, and too much rudder just slows you down.
>
> Regarding the wheel nut:  I recently purchased the special plastic wrench 
> that Edson sells for this nut.  This let's you more easily remove the nut 
> in an emergency if you've used lock-tite to secure the nut. Check with 
> Edson to find out which grade of lock-tite to use.  You don't want to make 
> this a permanent bond!  They provide a small tube of the right stuff in 
> their steering maintenance kit.
>
> Scott
> Surprise, 653
>
> Chris Burti wrote:
>> I will add a couple of comments to Irv's for further clarity. It takes a
>> little time for the boat to respond to the wheel in reverse at slow 
>> speed.
>> In spite of all intuition to the contrary, turning the wheel hard over in
>> reverse only slows the boat down (like a brake). Unlike when you are 
>> moving
>> forward and the prop is pushing water across the rudder, turning the 
>> rudder
>> over further will not add to the amount of turn after about 15-20 
>> degrees.
>> The slower the speed in reverse, the less responsive is the rudder.
>>
>> Unless your charger wiring has been changed, it is wired directly to the
>> batteries and bypasses the switch. This can be verified by observing the
>> voltage meter which should show higher voltage when charging regardless 
>> of
>> the switch position.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Irving Grunes <igrunes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brad,
>>> 1. The snubber is standard on 2001 #851
>>> 2. #851 Turning Radius seems fine
>>> 3.Our wheel nut sometimes loosens up, but you want to be able to remove 
>>> the
>>> wheel quickly in case you need to use the emergency tiller. We just hand
>>> tighten it from time to time.
>>> 4.Most battery chargers will charge each battery separately.when the
>>> charger
>>> is turned on.
>>> I do NOT suggest putting the batteries switch in to the BOTH position
>>> unless
>>> there is a need. That will just drag the good battery down to the lower
>>> charged battery
>>> 5. Ideling the engine only makes for carbon build up in the exhaust 
>>> system.
>>> The cooling system controls the max engine temperature.  Always race the
>>> engine before shutting down for  FEW SECONDS TO BLOW ANY CARBON OUT..
>>> DIESELS ARE MEANT TO BE RUN HARD.
>>>
>>> 6. Suggest finding a clear stretch of water and practice doing figure
>>> eights
>>> in reverse, in both directions.
>>> That will give you confidence in controlling the boat. You must have 
>>> some
>>> speed up to control the C320 in reverse.
>>> Good Luck on your new boat.
>>> Irv Grunes
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Brad Kuether <bkuether at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We (the family) took Independence out for our first sail.  It was 
>>>> blowing
>>>> like snot, and we kept the genny reefed in around 130.  The boat 
>>>> handled
>>>> exactly how I thought it would, maybe getting overpowered once or twice
>>> but
>>>> nothing drastic.
>>>>
>>>> The real adventure began when we tried to put the boat away, going dead
>>>> downwind.   It took us three tries to get it into the slip and it 
>>>> wasn't
>>>> pretty how we did it.
>>>>
>>>> The problem was that boat simply would not turn to port going 
>>>> backwards.
>>>  I
>>>> knew it wouldn't handle like my C&C did, but I mean it would NOT move 
>>>> at
>>>> all.  And while I was trying I could only get 180 degrees on the wheel.
>>>  It
>>>> didn't seem right.
>>>>
>>>> So after the wife and kids left, I crawled down into the aft 
>>>> compartment.
>>>>  The wire that keeps the radial drive wheel from over turning had a
>>> rubber
>>>> snubber on it, that basically took about 2 inches off the length of the
>>>> wire.  I think this is what kept me from being able to steer into the
>>> slip.
>>>> So based on my first experience here are my questions...
>>>>
>>>>  1.. Is the snubber standard, or was it put on the by the PO?
>>>>  2.. Can it be removed or is 40 degrees really what the turning radius
>>> is?
>>>>  3.. Has anyone had problems with the wheel getting loose?  (I tightend
>>> the
>>>> piece that hold the wheel on and it just got loose again. )
>>>>  4.. If you plug the boat in will it charge the batteries and does the
>>>> battery switch need to be in the on position for that to happen?.  (I
>>> know
>>>> RTFM, but I spent all my time diagnosing the steering!)
>>>>  5.. Is there a temperature where the engine can safely be shutdown?
>>>>  (3GM30) I have never had a gage just knew if I let it idle for 5 mins 
>>>> or
>>> so
>>>> it would be fine.  ( I know probably another RTFM)
>>>> Thanks and I am sure I will have more questions after we go out 
>>>> more.....
>>>>
>>>> -Brad, Mary, Monica, and Jarod
>>>> "Independence"
>>>> 2004 Catalina 320 Hull 1006
>>>> Middle River, MD
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Scott Thompson
> Surprise, #653
>