[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 393, Issue 1
Thomas Page
pagethomasa at gmail.com
Sun Mar 22 05:44:15 PDT 2009
Anyone have any experience with small wind generators on a 320? I keep
Jeannette III at a morring and would like to generatre enough power to keeps
battery charged and frig going without killing hte batteries.
Tom Page
Jeannette III
On 3/20/09, c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com <
c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Tacking Efficiently in Racing (argates2nd at comcast.net)
> 2. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (pat reynolds)
> 3. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (Andrew Santangelo)
> 4. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (Andrew Santangelo)
> 5. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (argates2nd at comcast.net)
> 6. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (sailorlew at aol.com)
> 7. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (Chris Burti)
> 8. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (dmoores at cogeco.ca)
> 9. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (Charles Greenwell)
> 10. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (Andrew Santangelo)
> 11. Re: Tacking Efficiently in Racing (Andrew Santangelo)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:44:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From: argates2nd at comcast.net
> Subject: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320 Assn List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1234260665.7367541237506256532.JavaMail.root at sz0010a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5.? Our new dacron 155
> Genny is a?handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind above 10-12mph.
>
>
>
> Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us about 2
> minutes per hour, beat us and won?by 63 seconds corrected.? If we had tacked
> more efficiently, it would have made the difference.
>
>
>
> One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one lets off
> the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then winching the new
> working sheet.
>
>
>
> What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking?-- (besides a
> folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)?
>
>
>
> Rollie??? ?#182?(wing keel)? ? Charlotte Harbor, FL
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pat reynolds <lorasalum at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Message-ID: <510980.67295.qm at web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> Rollie,
>
> A 155 is a load to trim quickly and efficiently when the wind picks
> up. With the age of your crew its all wishful thinking. I know, I am at
> the top range of your crew. First thing is to look around for a person
> around 25 with biceps to match. It doesn't matter if they have sailed
> before. Failing that, make sure the one releasing the lazy sheet
> immediately helps tail the new working sheet. 65 divided 2 is an average
> age of 32.5
>
> The Alerion 28 has a self tacking headsail if I remember and it has less
> sail area than your genoa.
>
> Pat R.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, argates2nd at comcast.net <argates2nd at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > From: argates2nd at comcast.net <argates2nd at comcast.net>
> > Subject: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> > To: "C320 Assn List" <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> > Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 6:44 PM
> >
> >
> > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5.? Our
> > new dacron 155 Genny is a?handful for guys aged 65-72 to
> > handle in wind above 10-12mph.
> >
> >
> >
> > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which
> > gives us about 2 minutes per hour, beat us and won?by 63
> > seconds corrected.? If we had tacked more efficiently, it
> > would have made the difference.
> >
> >
> >
> > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the
> > tack, one lets off the genny sheet, and one does the work
> > pulling and then winching the new working sheet.
> >
> >
> >
> > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking?--
> > (besides a folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rollie??? ?#182?(wing keel)? ? Charlotte Harbor, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:41:30 -0600
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: C320 Assn List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> Message-ID: <8B2C4BEC-137C-4D48-A917-D692007BA1BB at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Rollie,
>
> Every little bit does help (as does a folding prop - it really does
> make a difference). But slow tacks are truly a killer as is improper
> mainsheet and headsail trim. But here are some pointers on the
> sailing trim and team work.
>
> * Tacking - the key is tacking fast AND efficiently. The instant the
> sail breaks to the other side release and bring it over as FAST as you
> can. If you don't, as you probably discovered, it takes forever to
> winch in a loaded sail unless you have some boat bubbas.
>
> * Tacking, part II - do not get too fast bringing the boat around
> otherwise your crew cannot keep up with you. Now do not get too slow
> or you will get in irons.
>
> When we did the above technique our tacks went from 2 minutes
> (Sheesh!) to now 20 seconds worst. Early on I was so frustrated with
> the crew I demonstrated tacking the boat myself with the autopilot -
> did it in 18 seconds.
>
> * Mainsail trim - this is really important on this boat especially in
> gusty and windy conditions. You need a crew member who is good at
> reading the wind and waves and adjusting the sail without a comment
> from the helms person. This is critical. One or two weather helm
> incidents and that is the race.
>
> One other pointer to consider - exercise. My crew on occasion would
> have some members in their upper 50s and it was a challenge - tacking,
> sail trim, everything. However one lady on my crew (58) over the
> winter lifted weights and exercised. The change was profound. She
> was almost a boat bubba! She was definitely stronger than the old men
> on the boat. Yes you can exercise as you get older and still work a
> boat.
>
> Some other tips to consider (low cost):
> * Go with non-stretch racing sheets and halyards. Less stretch, the
> quicker you stabilize at one speed that is slightly higher.
> * Constantly trim and look at the wind, waves and boat. This makes a
> huge difference. My first year of racing I went from beyond dead last
> (if there is a position) and lower third of fleet doing this - with
> original sails and three blade fixed prop. I found the cruiser
> mentality of setting sails and relaxing did not work.
> * Learn the feel of your boat - time and experience. That is why I
> nervous moving up to a bigger boat now - I know my boat inside and
> out. I know what makes her tick. This is also very good for cruising.
>
> Little more costly options:
> * I went to the Autoprop folding prop and it did wonders for both
> racing and cruising. I reach hull speed with lower RPMS (saving
> fuel), no prop walk, lots of power in bad weather - and faster under
> sail. This moved me up to the upper division of the fleet with the
> other minor adds from above.
>
> Very costly if you want the flag badly:
> * Fin keel
> * Racing sails
> * Hydraulic Backstay
> * Spinnaker Gear (uh - hold off on this with an old crew. Heck a
> young crew almost sunk my boat , so to speak, with a spinnaker the
> first time). For the buoy races we do not use the Spinnaker too much
> loss of time with an untrained beginner crew. We do use the Spinnaker
> for big long distance races - and do win or place.
>
> I hope this helps. Keys - think efficiently on a tack, let the wind
> help you bring the sail over, and bring the sheet in quickly while it
> is unloaded.
>
> BTW - tacks on my J22 are under 5 seconds - but that is a little sail!
>
> Best Regards,
> Andrew
> C320 "Dawn Treader"
> #333
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, argates2nd at comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5. Our new
> > dacron 155 Genny is a handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind
> > above 10-12mph.
> >
> >
> >
> > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us
> > about 2 minutes per hour, beat us and won by 63 seconds corrected.
> > If we had tacked more efficiently, it would have made the difference.
> >
> >
> >
> > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one
> > lets off the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then
> > winching the new working sheet.
> >
> >
> >
> > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking -- (besides
> > a folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rollie #182 (wing keel) Charlotte Harbor, FL
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:41:30 -0600
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: C320 Assn List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> Message-ID: <8B2C4BEC-137C-4D48-A917-D692007BA1BB at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Rollie,
>
> Every little bit does help (as does a folding prop - it really does
> make a difference). But slow tacks are truly a killer as is improper
> mainsheet and headsail trim. But here are some pointers on the
> sailing trim and team work.
>
> * Tacking - the key is tacking fast AND efficiently. The instant the
> sail breaks to the other side release and bring it over as FAST as you
> can. If you don't, as you probably discovered, it takes forever to
> winch in a loaded sail unless you have some boat bubbas.
>
> * Tacking, part II - do not get too fast bringing the boat around
> otherwise your crew cannot keep up with you. Now do not get too slow
> or you will get in irons.
>
> When we did the above technique our tacks went from 2 minutes
> (Sheesh!) to now 20 seconds worst. Early on I was so frustrated with
> the crew I demonstrated tacking the boat myself with the autopilot -
> did it in 18 seconds.
>
> * Mainsail trim - this is really important on this boat especially in
> gusty and windy conditions. You need a crew member who is good at
> reading the wind and waves and adjusting the sail without a comment
> from the helms person. This is critical. One or two weather helm
> incidents and that is the race.
>
> One other pointer to consider - exercise. My crew on occasion would
> have some members in their upper 50s and it was a challenge - tacking,
> sail trim, everything. However one lady on my crew (58) over the
> winter lifted weights and exercised. The change was profound. She
> was almost a boat bubba! She was definitely stronger than the old men
> on the boat. Yes you can exercise as you get older and still work a
> boat.
>
> Some other tips to consider (low cost):
> * Go with non-stretch racing sheets and halyards. Less stretch, the
> quicker you stabilize at one speed that is slightly higher.
> * Constantly trim and look at the wind, waves and boat. This makes a
> huge difference. My first year of racing I went from beyond dead last
> (if there is a position) and lower third of fleet doing this - with
> original sails and three blade fixed prop. I found the cruiser
> mentality of setting sails and relaxing did not work.
> * Learn the feel of your boat - time and experience. That is why I
> nervous moving up to a bigger boat now - I know my boat inside and
> out. I know what makes her tick. This is also very good for cruising.
>
> Little more costly options:
> * I went to the Autoprop folding prop and it did wonders for both
> racing and cruising. I reach hull speed with lower RPMS (saving
> fuel), no prop walk, lots of power in bad weather - and faster under
> sail. This moved me up to the upper division of the fleet with the
> other minor adds from above.
>
> Very costly if you want the flag badly:
> * Fin keel
> * Racing sails
> * Hydraulic Backstay
> * Spinnaker Gear (uh - hold off on this with an old crew. Heck a
> young crew almost sunk my boat , so to speak, with a spinnaker the
> first time). For the buoy races we do not use the Spinnaker too much
> loss of time with an untrained beginner crew. We do use the Spinnaker
> for big long distance races - and do win or place.
>
> I hope this helps. Keys - think efficiently on a tack, let the wind
> help you bring the sail over, and bring the sheet in quickly while it
> is unloaded.
>
> BTW - tacks on my J22 are under 5 seconds - but that is a little sail!
>
> Best Regards,
> Andrew
> C320 "Dawn Treader"
> #333
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, argates2nd at comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5. Our new
> > dacron 155 Genny is a handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind
> > above 10-12mph.
> >
> >
> >
> > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us
> > about 2 minutes per hour, beat us and won by 63 seconds corrected.
> > If we had tacked more efficiently, it would have made the difference.
> >
> >
> >
> > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one
> > lets off the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then
> > winching the new working sheet.
> >
> >
> >
> > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking -- (besides
> > a folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rollie #182 (wing keel) Charlotte Harbor, FL
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:28:54 +0000 (UTC)
> From: argates2nd at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Message-ID:
> <
> 28252167.7456281237552134097.JavaMail.root at sz0010a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> Andrew & Pat,
>
> Thanks for these great tips.
>
> The Alerion 28 does have a self-tacking?working jib for heavy air?-- and
> also two high tech genny's that don't fit the jib boom -- so they beat us
> 85% of the time, so?we are 2nd this year overall in a 6 boat class A.? The
> third place boat is an Irwin 38 that does well on long non-beating legs with
> their waterline and light weight.
>
> Monday and Tuesday is our club's Spring regatta and I will report back with
> our progress.?
>
>
>
> If I can't improve the crew, I will contact you to sign them up for
> bonehead crewing and/or start drinking more.
>
> Rollie? #182??? Charlotte Harbor, FL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Santangelo" <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: "C320 Assn List" <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:41:30 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
>
> Rollie,
>
> Every little bit does help (as does a folding prop - it really does ?
> make a difference). ?But slow tacks are truly a killer as is improper ?
> mainsheet and headsail trim. ?But here are some pointers on the ?
> sailing trim and team work.
>
> * Tacking - the key is tacking fast AND efficiently. ?The instant the ?
> sail breaks to the other side release and bring it over as FAST as you ?
> can. ?If you don't, as you probably discovered, it takes forever to ?
> winch in a loaded sail unless you have some boat bubbas.
>
> * Tacking, part II - do not get too fast bringing the boat around ?
> otherwise your crew cannot keep up with you. ?Now do not get too slow ?
> or you will get in irons.
>
> When we did the above technique our tacks went from 2 minutes ?
> (Sheesh!) to now 20 seconds worst. ?Early on I was so frustrated with ?
> the crew I demonstrated tacking the boat myself with the autopilot - ?
> did it in 18 seconds.
>
> * Mainsail trim - this is really important on this boat especially in ?
> gusty and windy conditions. ?You need a crew member who is good at ?
> reading the wind and waves and adjusting the sail without a comment ?
> from the helms person. ?This is critical. ?One or two weather helm ?
> incidents and that is the race.
>
> One other pointer to consider - exercise. ?My crew on occasion would ?
> have some members in their upper 50s and it was a challenge - tacking, ?
> sail trim, everything. ?However one lady on my crew (58) over the ?
> winter lifted weights and exercised. ?The change was profound. ?She ?
> was almost a boat bubba! ?She was definitely stronger than the old men ?
> on the boat. Yes you can exercise as you get older and still work a ?
> boat.
>
> Some other tips to consider (low cost):
> * Go with non-stretch racing sheets and halyards. ?Less stretch, the ?
> quicker you stabilize at one speed that is slightly higher.
> * Constantly trim and look at the wind, waves and boat. ?This makes a ?
> huge difference. ?My first year of racing I went from beyond dead last ?
> (if there is a position) and lower third of fleet doing this - with ?
> original sails and three blade fixed prop. ?I found the cruiser ?
> mentality of setting sails and relaxing did not work.
> * Learn the feel of your boat - time and experience. ?That is why I ?
> nervous moving up to a bigger boat now - I know my boat inside and ?
> out. ?I know what makes her tick. ?This is also very good for cruising.
>
> Little more costly options:
> * I went to the Autoprop folding prop and it did wonders for both ?
> racing and cruising. ?I reach hull speed with lower RPMS (saving ?
> fuel), no prop walk, lots of power in bad weather - and faster under ?
> sail. ?This moved me up to the upper division of the fleet with the ?
> other minor adds from above.
>
> Very costly if you want the flag badly:
> * Fin keel
> * Racing sails
> * Hydraulic Backstay
> * Spinnaker Gear (uh - hold off on this with an old crew. ?Heck a ?
> young crew almost sunk my boat , so to speak, with a spinnaker the ?
> first time). ?For the buoy races we do not use the Spinnaker too much ?
> loss of time with an untrained beginner crew. ?We do use the Spinnaker ?
> for big long distance races - and do win or place.
>
> I hope this helps. ?Keys - think efficiently on a tack, let the wind ?
> help you bring the sail over, and bring the sheet in quickly while it ?
> is unloaded.
>
> BTW - tacks on my J22 are under 5 seconds - but that is a little sail!
>
> Best Regards,
> Andrew
> C320 "Dawn Treader"
> #333
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "pat reynolds" <lorasalum at yahoo.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:22:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
>
>
> Rollie,
>
> A 155 is a load to trim quickly and efficiently when the wind picks up.
> ?With the age of your crew its all wishful thinking. ?I know, I am at the
> top range of your crew. ?First thing is to look around for a person around
> 25 with biceps to match. ?It doesn't matter if they have sailed before.
> ?Failing that, make sure the one releasing the lazy sheet immediately helps
> tail the new working sheet. ?65 divided 2 is an average age of 32.5
>
> The Alerion 28 has a self tacking headsail if I remember and it has less
> sail area than your genoa.
>
> ?Pat R.
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, argates2nd at comcast.net wrote:
>
> > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5. ?Our new ?
> > dacron 155 Genny is a handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind ?
> > above 10-12mph.
> >
> > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us ?
> > about 2 minutes per hour, beat us and won by 63 seconds corrected. ?
> > If we had tacked more efficiently, it would have made the difference.
> >
> > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one ?
> > lets off the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then ?
> > winching the new working sheet.
> >
> > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking -- (besides ?
> > a folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)?
> >
> > Rollie ? ? #182 (wing keel) ? ?Charlotte Harbor, FL
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:11:38 -0400
> From: sailorlew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Message-ID: <8CB7774897EB47F-9C4-2B20 at WEBMAIL-MY33.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I find that the best way to tack is to have 3 people working. 1 prepared to
> take in the lazy sheet, 1 prepared to release the working sheet, & 1 at the
> mast to manually bring the jib across. The person who releases the working
> sheet then crosses the cockpit to crank the handle at the correct time, the
> person at the mast pulls the jib across to prevent it from hanging up, the
> person on the lazy sheet tails as much by hand as he can when the jib is
> across, & the person on the handle starts cranking as soon as the sheet
> being tailed is tight.
> Lew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: C320 Assn List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:41 am
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
>
>
> Rollie,?
> ?
> Every little bit does help (as does a folding prop - it really does make a
> difference). But slow tacks are truly a killer as is improper mainsheet and
> headsail trim. But here are some pointers on the sailing trim and team
> work.?
> ?
> * Tacking - the key is tacking fast AND efficiently. The instant the sail
> breaks to the other side release and bring it over as FAST as you can. If
> you don't, as you probably discovered, it takes forever to winch in a loaded
> sail unless you have some boat bubbas.?
> ?
> * Tacking, part II - do not get too fast bringing the boat around otherwise
> your crew cannot keep up with you. Now do not get too slow or you will get
> in irons.?
> ?
> When we did the above technique our tacks went from 2 minutes (Sheesh!) to
> now 20 seconds worst. Early on I was so frustrated with the crew I
> demonstrated tacking the boat myself with the autopilot - did it in 18
> seconds.?
> ?
> * Mainsail trim - this is really important on this boat especially in gusty
> and windy conditions. You need a crew member who is good at reading the wind
> and waves and adjusting the sail without a comment from the helms person.
> This is critical. One or two weather helm incidents and that is the race.?
> ?
> One other pointer to consider - exercise. My crew on occasion would have
> some members in their upper 50s and it was a challenge - tacking, sail trim,
> everything. However one lady on my crew (58) over the winter lifted weights
> and exercised. The change was profound. She was almost a boat bubba! She was
> definitely stronger than the old men on the boat. Yes you can exercise as
> you get older and still work a boat.?
> ?
> Some other tips to consider (low cost):?
> * Go with non-stretch racing sheets and halyards. Less stretch, the quicker
> you stabilize at one speed that is slightly higher.?
> * Constantly trim and look at the wind, waves and boat. This makes a huge
> difference. My first year of racing I went from beyond dead last (if there
> is a position) and lower third of fleet doing this - with original sails and
> three blade fixed prop. I found the cruiser mentality of setting sails and
> relaxing did not work.?
> * Learn the feel of your boat - time and experience. That is why I nervous
> moving up to a bigger boat now - I know my boat inside and out. I know what
> makes her tick. This is also very good for cruising.?
> ?
> Little more costly options:?
> * I went to the Autoprop folding prop and it did wonders for both racing
> and cruising. I reach hull speed with lower RPMS (saving fuel), no prop
> walk, lots of power in bad weather - and faster under sail. This moved me up
> to the upper division of the fleet with the other minor adds from above.?
> ?
> Very costly if you want the flag badly:?
> * Fin keel?
> * Racing sails?
> * Hydraulic Backstay?
> * Spinnaker Gear (uh - hold off on this with an old crew. Heck a young crew
> almost sunk my boat , so to speak, with a spinnaker the first time). For the
> buoy races we do not use the Spinnaker too much loss of time with an
> untrained beginner crew. We do use the Spinnaker for big long distance races
> - and do win or place.?
> ?
> I hope this helps. Keys - think efficiently on a tack, let the wind help
> you bring the sail over, and bring the sheet in quickly while it is
> unloaded.?
> ?
> BTW - tacks on my J22 are under 5 seconds - but that is a little sail!?
> ?
> Best Regards,?
> Andrew?
> C320 "Dawn Treader"?
> #333?
> ?
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, argates2nd at comcast.net wrote:?
> ?
> >?
> >?
> > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5. Our new > dacron
> 155 Genny is a handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind > above
> 10-12mph.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us > about 2
> minutes per hour, beat us and won by 63 seconds corrected. > If we had
> tacked more efficiently, it would have made the difference.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one > lets
> off the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then > winching the
> new working sheet.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking -- (besides > a
> folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)??
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Rollie #182 (wing keel) Charlotte Harbor, FL?
> ?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:14:14 -0400
> From: Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Message-ID:
> <79721a9c0903200714r4a0e6854nbc7ad0fa3157ac59 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> As Andrew suggested, the helmsman has a lot to do with the efficiency of
> the
> tack. The tack needs to be a smooth, moderate tempo, swing through the eye
> of the wind as he describes, slow but not too slow. It needs to be carried
> a
> bit deeper than the optimum point of sail for a couple of moments to power
> up the sails and let the boat accelerate faster before pointing up and
> final
> trim in.
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:11 AM, <sailorlew at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I find that the best way to tack is to have 3 people working. 1 prepared
> to
> > take in the lazy sheet, 1 prepared to release the working sheet, & 1 at
> the
> > mast to manually bring the jib across. The person who releases the
> working
> > sheet then crosses the cockpit to crank the handle at the correct time,
> the
> > person at the mast pulls the jib across to prevent it from hanging up,
> the
> > person on the lazy sheet tails as much by hand as he can when the jib is
> > across, & the person on the handle starts cranking as soon as the sheet
> > being tailed is tight.
> > Lew
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Cc: C320 Assn List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> > Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:41 am
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> >
> >
> > Rollie,?
> > ?
> > Every little bit does help (as does a folding prop - it really does make
> a
> > difference). But slow tacks are truly a killer as is improper mainsheet
> and
> > headsail trim. But here are some pointers on the sailing trim and team
> > work.?
> > ?
> > * Tacking - the key is tacking fast AND efficiently. The instant the sail
> > breaks to the other side release and bring it over as FAST as you can. If
> > you don't, as you probably discovered, it takes forever to winch in a
> loaded
> > sail unless you have some boat bubbas.?
> > ?
> > * Tacking, part II - do not get too fast bringing the boat around
> otherwise
> > your crew cannot keep up with you. Now do not get too slow or you will
> get
> > in irons.?
> > ?
> > When we did the above technique our tacks went from 2 minutes (Sheesh!)
> to
> > now 20 seconds worst. Early on I was so frustrated with the crew I
> > demonstrated tacking the boat myself with the autopilot - did it in 18
> > seconds.?
> > ?
> > * Mainsail trim - this is really important on this boat especially in
> gusty
> > and windy conditions. You need a crew member who is good at reading the
> wind
> > and waves and adjusting the sail without a comment from the helms person.
> > This is critical. One or two weather helm incidents and that is the
> race.?
> > ?
> > One other pointer to consider - exercise. My crew on occasion would have
> > some members in their upper 50s and it was a challenge - tacking, sail
> trim,
> > everything. However one lady on my crew (58) over the winter lifted
> weights
> > and exercised. The change was profound. She was almost a boat bubba! She
> was
> > definitely stronger than the old men on the boat. Yes you can exercise as
> > you get older and still work a boat.?
> > ?
> > Some other tips to consider (low cost):?
> > * Go with non-stretch racing sheets and halyards. Less stretch, the
> quicker
> > you stabilize at one speed that is slightly higher.?
> > * Constantly trim and look at the wind, waves and boat. This makes a huge
> > difference. My first year of racing I went from beyond dead last (if
> there
> > is a position) and lower third of fleet doing this - with original sails
> and
> > three blade fixed prop. I found the cruiser mentality of setting sails
> and
> > relaxing did not work.?
> > * Learn the feel of your boat - time and experience. That is why I
> nervous
> > moving up to a bigger boat now - I know my boat inside and out. I know
> what
> > makes her tick. This is also very good for cruising.?
> > ?
> > Little more costly options:?
> > * I went to the Autoprop folding prop and it did wonders for both racing
> > and cruising. I reach hull speed with lower RPMS (saving fuel), no prop
> > walk, lots of power in bad weather - and faster under sail. This moved me
> up
> > to the upper division of the fleet with the other minor adds from above.?
> > ?
> > Very costly if you want the flag badly:?
> > * Fin keel?
> > * Racing sails?
> > * Hydraulic Backstay?
> > * Spinnaker Gear (uh - hold off on this with an old crew. Heck a young
> crew
> > almost sunk my boat , so to speak, with a spinnaker the first time). For
> the
> > buoy races we do not use the Spinnaker too much loss of time with an
> > untrained beginner crew. We do use the Spinnaker for big long distance
> races
> > - and do win or place.?
> > ?
> > I hope this helps. Keys - think efficiently on a tack, let the wind help
> > you bring the sail over, and bring the sheet in quickly while it is
> > unloaded.?
> > ?
> > BTW - tacks on my J22 are under 5 seconds - but that is a little sail!?
> > ?
> > Best Regards,?
> > Andrew?
> > C320 "Dawn Treader"?
> > #333?
> > ?
> > On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, argates2nd at comcast.net wrote:?
> > ?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5. Our new > dacron
> > 155 Genny is a handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind > above
> > 10-12mph.?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us > about
> 2
> > minutes per hour, beat us and won by 63 seconds corrected. > If we had
> > tacked more efficiently, it would have made the difference.?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one >
> lets
> > off the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then > winching
> the
> > new working sheet.?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking -- (besides > a
> > folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)??
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > Rollie #182 (wing keel) Charlotte Harbor, FL?
> > ?
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Chris Burti Farmville, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:56:21 -0400
> From: "dmoores at cogeco.ca" <dmoores at cogeco.ca>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: c320-list at catalina320.com, c320-list at catalina320.com
> Message-ID: <380-220093520145621954 at M2W003.mail2web.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I have a young strong crew, and we do most of the good things that Andrew
> suggests. Even so we don't use our 155 racing mylar genny in much above 12
> knots, especially if it's gusty, as we find the boat is beginning to get
> overpowered and heeling/making leeway.We go upwind just as well with the
> (good, racing) number 2 in anything over 13 kts true.
>
> You can tell if you have too much weather helm (because of the heeling) by
> putting a tape wrapping around the wheel rim at the 5 degrees rudder angle
> position on each tack. Anything over 5 and you are slowing down because of
> the weather helm. Best to do this with the boat out of the water but as a
> rough guide the tapes should be about 14 inches either side of the
> straight-ahead position on the 320.
>
> Dave Moores #342
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: sailorlew at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:11:38 -0400
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
>
>
> I find that the best way to tack is to have 3 people working. 1 prepared to
> take in the lazy sheet, 1 prepared to release the working sheet, & 1 at the
> mast to manually bring the jib across. The person who releases the working
> sheet then crosses the cockpit to crank the handle at the correct time, the
> person at the mast pulls the jib across to prevent it from hanging up, the
> person on the lazy sheet tails as much by hand as he can when the jib is
> across, & the person on the handle starts cranking as soon as
> the sheet being tailed is tight.
> Lew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: C320 Assn List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
> Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:41 am
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
>
>
> Rollie,?
> ?
> Every little bit does help (as does a folding prop - it really does make a
> difference). But slow tacks are truly a killer as is improper mainsheet and
> headsail trim. But here are some pointers on the sailing trim and team
> work.?
> ?
> * Tacking - the key is tacking fast AND efficiently. The instant the sail
> breaks to the other side release and bring it over as FAST as you can. If
> you don't, as you probably discovered, it takes forever to winch in a
> loaded sail unless you have some boat bubbas.?
> ?
> * Tacking, part II - do not get too fast bringing the boat around otherwise
> your crew cannot keep up with you. Now do not get too slow or you will get
> in irons.?
> ?
> When we did the above technique our tacks went from 2 minutes (Sheesh!) to
> now 20 seconds worst. Early on I was so frustrated with the crew I
> demonstrated tacking the boat myself with the autopilot - did it in 18
> seconds.?
> ?
> * Mainsail trim - this is really important on this boat especially in gusty
> and windy conditions. You need a crew member who is good at reading the
> wind and waves and adjusting the sail without a comment from the helms
> person. This is critical. One or two weather helm incidents and that is the
> race.?
> ?
> One other pointer to consider - exercise. My crew on occasion would have
> some members in their upper 50s and it was a challenge - tacking, sail
> trim, everything. However one lady on my crew (58) over the winter lifted
> weights and exercised. The change was profound. She was almost a boat
> bubba! She was definitely stronger than the old men on the boat. Yes you
> can exercise as you get older and still work a boat.?
> ?
> Some other tips to consider (low cost):?
> * Go with non-stretch racing sheets and halyards. Less stretch, the quicker
> you stabilize at one speed that is slightly higher.?
> * Constantly trim and look at the wind, waves and boat. This makes a huge
> difference. My first year of racing I went from beyond dead last (if there
> is a position) and lower third of fleet doing this - with original sails
> and three blade fixed prop. I found the cruiser mentality of setting sails
> and relaxing did not work.?
> * Learn the feel of your boat - time and experience. That is why I nervous
> moving up to a bigger boat now - I know my boat inside and out. I know what
> makes her tick. This is also very good for cruising.?
> ?
> Little more costly options:?
> * I went to the Autoprop folding prop and it did wonders for both racing
> and cruising. I reach hull speed with lower RPMS (saving fuel), no prop
> walk, lots of power in bad weather - and faster under sail. This moved me
> up to the upper division of the fleet with the other minor adds from
> above.?
> ?
> Very costly if you want the flag badly:?
> * Fin keel?
> * Racing sails?
> * Hydraulic Backstay?
> * Spinnaker Gear (uh - hold off on this with an old crew. Heck a young crew
> almost sunk my boat , so to speak, with a spinnaker the first time). For
> the buoy races we do not use the Spinnaker too much loss of time with an
> untrained beginner crew. We do use the Spinnaker for big long distance
> races - and do win or place.?
> ?
> I hope this helps. Keys - think efficiently on a tack, let the wind help
> you bring the sail over, and bring the sheet in quickly while it is
> unloaded.?
> ?
> BTW - tacks on my J22 are under 5 seconds - but that is a little sail!?
> ?
> Best Regards,?
> Andrew?
> C320 "Dawn Treader"?
> #333?
> ?
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, argates2nd at comcast.net wrote:?
> ?
> >?
> >?
> > We club race an Olympic course with a crew of 4 or 5. Our new > dacron
> 155 Genny is a handful for guys aged 65-72 to handle in wind > above
> 10-12mph.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Last Monday, an Alerion 28 with high tech sails, which gives us > about 2
> minutes per hour, beat us and won by 63 seconds corrected. > If we had
> tacked more efficiently, it would have made the difference.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > One of our crew handles the traveler at the start of the tack, one > lets
> off the genny sheet, and one does the work pulling and then > winching the
> new working sheet.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > What tips do you have for better teamwork while tacking -- (besides > a
> folding prop to replace our 2 bladed fixed prop)??
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Rollie #182 (wing keel) Charlotte Harbor, FL?
> ?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:14:11 -0400
> From: "Charles Greenwell" <CGreenwell at sparusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> Message-ID: <9C8014FEBD56664498942B36E7A256FC22B0A6 at spar1.sparusa.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Another good thing to do, is for the helmsman to count down the tack...
> 5,4,3,2,1... "Helms Over". This helps set the timing so that you are not
> going too fast or too slow.
>
>
>
> Then the helmsman calls out "Head to wind". This signals the trimmer to
> release the sheet. This way the trimmer does not need to watch the head
> sail and can concentrate on the release. When he releases the sheet, it
> is very important that he does not unwind it from the winch but pulls
> the sheet straight up, off of the winch, so that the sheet unwinds
> naturally and faster. Lots of novice trimmers unwind the sheet from the
> winch which is slow and puts kinks in the sheet thus preventing it from
> feeding through the jib cars smoothly.
>
>
>
> If you are lucky enough to have an extra body, have that person place
> himself up near the stays next to the mast. He can help the jib around
> the stays to the other side. This keeps the 155 from getting stuck on
> the stays (kind of like a self tacking mechanism only using humans
> instead). This is especially important in lighter air and gets the jib
> around faster.
>
>
>
> And finally, practice! Before the race do a few tacks.
>
>
>
> Randy
>
> LeBijou #719
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:41:47 -0600
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Message-ID: <A3998520-E5F8-4C98-A29E-7DE3AA6BC4CF at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Yes, we do a count down too.
>
> Though sometimes I will count down 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1.... under
> certain circumstances. LOL.
>
> Also, I do call out "Ready to come about" before the tack to the crew
> and wait for "ready on port" and "ready on starboard" from each crew
> member. I will also let them know the urgency of the tack using the
> count down and let them know it will happen quickly.
>
> Then I will do the count down and call "Hard a lee". On a Gybe I say
> "Gybe Ho" - prior to this I ask for the boom to be centered.
>
> Sometimes however things are moving so fast (with 40 big boats on the
> line), we do talk through the start and note there may be an emergency
> tack and circle Gybe in some cases. I do ask the crew to be on top
> form on the start and to pay close attention. We do count down the
> time prior to the start. I also ask them to pay attention to the race
> and save the site seeing for later.
>
> I do notice some of you have snagging problems with your 155. You may
> want to put tape and/or those tubes (I forget what they are called) on
> the shrouds to prevent this snagging.
>
> In light air I have either the bowman move the sail over OR if short
> handed I have the person who released the sailed to then go forward to
> help move the sail over if need be. The free individual or bowman
> also "skirts the sail" if need be. Yes, the bowman also works the
> Spinnaker set up when in use.
>
> Lastly, make sure your crew pays attention to any jams of the sheet to
> release it ASAP.
>
> I do agree with practicing and getting into a rhythm with your crew.
> New crews, even if experts, need to get in sync.
>
> Best Regards,
> Andrew
> C320 "Dawn Treader"
> #333
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Charles Greenwell wrote:
>
> > Another good thing to do, is for the helmsman to count down the
> > tack...
> > 5,4,3,2,1... "Helms Over". This helps set the timing so that you are
> > not
> > going too fast or too slow.
> >
> >
> >
> > Then the helmsman calls out "Head to wind". This signals the
> > trimmer to
> > release the sheet. This way the trimmer does not need to watch the
> > head
> > sail and can concentrate on the release. When he releases the
> > sheet, it
> > is very important that he does not unwind it from the winch but pulls
> > the sheet straight up, off of the winch, so that the sheet unwinds
> > naturally and faster. Lots of novice trimmers unwind the sheet from
> > the
> > winch which is slow and puts kinks in the sheet thus preventing it
> > from
> > feeding through the jib cars smoothly.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are lucky enough to have an extra body, have that person place
> > himself up near the stays next to the mast. He can help the jib
> > around
> > the stays to the other side. This keeps the 155 from getting stuck
> > on
> > the stays (kind of like a self tacking mechanism only using humans
> > instead). This is especially important in lighter air and gets the
> > jib
> > around faster.
> >
> >
> >
> > And finally, practice! Before the race do a few tacks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > LeBijou #719
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:41:47 -0600
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Tacking Efficiently in Racing
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Message-ID: <A3998520-E5F8-4C98-A29E-7DE3AA6BC4CF at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Yes, we do a count down too.
>
> Though sometimes I will count down 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1.... under
> certain circumstances. LOL.
>
> Also, I do call out "Ready to come about" before the tack to the crew
> and wait for "ready on port" and "ready on starboard" from each crew
> member. I will also let them know the urgency of the tack using the
> count down and let them know it will happen quickly.
>
> Then I will do the count down and call "Hard a lee". On a Gybe I say
> "Gybe Ho" - prior to this I ask for the boom to be centered.
>
> Sometimes however things are moving so fast (with 40 big boats on the
> line), we do talk through the start and note there may be an emergency
> tack and circle Gybe in some cases. I do ask the crew to be on top
> form on the start and to pay close attention. We do count down the
> time prior to the start. I also ask them to pay attention to the race
> and save the site seeing for later.
>
> I do notice some of you have snagging problems with your 155. You may
> want to put tape and/or those tubes (I forget what they are called) on
> the shrouds to prevent this snagging.
>
> In light air I have either the bowman move the sail over OR if short
> handed I have the person who released the sailed to then go forward to
> help move the sail over if need be. The free individual or bowman
> also "skirts the sail" if need be. Yes, the bowman also works the
> Spinnaker set up when in use.
>
> Lastly, make sure your crew pays attention to any jams of the sheet to
> release it ASAP.
>
> I do agree with practicing and getting into a rhythm with your crew.
> New crews, even if experts, need to get in sync.
>
> Best Regards,
> Andrew
> C320 "Dawn Treader"
> #333
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Charles Greenwell wrote:
>
> > Another good thing to do, is for the helmsman to count down the
> > tack...
> > 5,4,3,2,1... "Helms Over". This helps set the timing so that you are
> > not
> > going too fast or too slow.
> >
> >
> >
> > Then the helmsman calls out "Head to wind". This signals the
> > trimmer to
> > release the sheet. This way the trimmer does not need to watch the
> > head
> > sail and can concentrate on the release. When he releases the
> > sheet, it
> > is very important that he does not unwind it from the winch but pulls
> > the sheet straight up, off of the winch, so that the sheet unwinds
> > naturally and faster. Lots of novice trimmers unwind the sheet from
> > the
> > winch which is slow and puts kinks in the sheet thus preventing it
> > from
> > feeding through the jib cars smoothly.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are lucky enough to have an extra body, have that person place
> > himself up near the stays next to the mast. He can help the jib
> > around
> > the stays to the other side. This keeps the 155 from getting stuck
> > on
> > the stays (kind of like a self tacking mechanism only using humans
> > instead). This is especially important in lighter air and gets the
> > jib
> > around faster.
> >
> >
> >
> > And finally, practice! Before the race do a few tacks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > LeBijou #719
>
>
>
> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 393, Issue 1
> *****************************************
>
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