[C320-list] Wing vs deep keel

[Chef Adam Weiner]

If you read John Betrand's book BORN TO WIN he will tell you that the boat
with the wing keel was actually slower (and about the same on
maneuverability) as their match horse with the fin keel.  He claims the Cup
was one out of his skill and perseverance, and Dennis' fear that he had been
outdone on technology.

The new fins and such on the Cup boat's appendages (hell, they don't even
call them keels) are a very different creature than the "wing keel" on
cruising boats.

Adam

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Santangelo
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:19 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Wing vs deep keel

Kevin,

Ah yes, Australia II did with with a wing keel.  After the victory in  
the America's Cup lots of cruising vessels started popping up with  
wing keels.

But this is what is confusing for many people.  The wing keel was a  
very specialized design on Australia II.  The wing keel on almost all  
production boats is very different and it serves only one purpose -  
shallow draft for shallow waters.  Note the wing keel C320, due to  
less of a moment arm has to carry 400 lbs more in lead just to  
maintain vessel balance.   Either way, a wing keel C320 is heavier,  
slower, cannot point as well as a fin keel C320.

I can see being in shallow waters most of the time one would want a  
wing keel C320, no doubt about it.  I would not call the ability to  
point to windward as a non-significant difference for a cruiser.  I  
can point 5+ degrees better with my fin keel vs. the wing keel.  If I  
am sailing close hauled a 4, 40 or 100 miles on Lake Michigan I would  
prefer to be a pointing at my destination and tacking less.  Plus you  
will shorten your time to your destination by hours on a long trip.   
This is not trivial, especially when the weather is an issue.

Resale on the boat - location, location, location.  If you are in a  
shallow water location I can definitely see selling a fin keel C320 as  
difficult.  My location it is not difficult.  Location is also a  
factor in other things like sails - I understand in the SFO area  
Genoa's tend to be the 135% variety.  With the light air in Lake  
Michigan that we often experience the 155% is the common variety.

Some other advantages for the cruiser besides speed - that 400 lbs of  
wasted lead can go to food, water, tools, other supplies and passengers.

But I will say this - if want to race and at least try to place above  
50% of the fleet, the only way to go is the fin keel.  If you are just  
hanging around for fun and do not mind always being last or the bottom  
of the fleet, then the wing is fine.

Rick does say it right though every boat can cause some compromises.   
Yes I cannot go into shallow anchorages or shallow slips, but for me  
that is not a requirement.

Oh and Bill - nope, not in Texas, though I travel through there often.  
I need to stop at the Big Texan sometime in Amarillo sometime (no I do  
not try for the 72 oz free steak).  I am in the Holland, Michigan area  
moving the boat to San Francisco.

Best Regards,
Andrew
C320 "Dawn Treader"
#333

On Mar 10, 2009, at 3:53 PM, Kevin wrote:

>
> Andrew Santangelo wrote:
>>
>> I would say this - no one interested in winning at racing would  
>> consider a wing keel vessel.
>
>
> Well, Australia II did win the America's Cup in '83 with one. ;-)
>
> Kevin
> #211
> (Currently named "Winter Whim, to be renamed "Cecilia Ann" in a few  
> weeks)
> http://kevjot.com/boat/
>
>