[C320-list] Inverter - follow-up questions

Thu Mar 12 08:49:23 PDT 2009

Keep in mind that even with an inverter, you would not be able to use your
AC without a generator...

They still play basketball in Kansas!  :)

OD

|------------>
| From:      |
|------------>
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |Dean Vermeire <dean at vermeire.us>                                                                                                          |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| To:        |
|------------>
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |C320-List at Catalina320.com                                                                                                                 |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| Date:      |
|------------>
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |03/12/2009 05:31 AM                                                                                                                       |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| Subject:   |
|------------>
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |Re: [C320-list] Inverter - follow-up questions                                                                                            |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| Sent by:   |
|------------>
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com                                                                                                   |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

When I posted my original question, I had no idea it would spark (pun
intended) such a great conversation.

Obviously, there are different solutions available.  Which solution is
best for each of us depends on our individual situations.

I sail on a lake in Kansas.  Most of you are probably surprised we even
have sailboats in Kansas.  You probably only think we have Basketball.
Suffice it to say that I am never too far from the Marina.

When we stay on the boat overnight, we normally just stay in the
marina.  Anchoring out right now would mean that we can't use the air
conditioner, microwave, or any other AC appliances.  However, we have
two beagles, and they like to do their business in the grass instead of
on the poop deck.  My wife and I like the full-size showers at the
marina.  Clearly, my need for an inverter or a generator is not all that
great.

A generator would take up space and require gasoline.  We don't have a
dink, so we don't normally have a gas can around.  We do have a PWC, but
we just fill it at the marina.  It does not make sense to me to have
diesel, propane, and gasoline all onboard.

I like the idea of a charger/inverter.  That makes sense to me.  It
seems like that would be a nice upgrade to the boat.  I just have to
decide how much that is worth to me.

Thanks for all of the ideas and information.

Dean Vermeire
Moonstruck II (#847)

Allan S. Field wrote:
> While it is true that diesels should be good for many hours with proper
> maintenance, proper maintenance includes running under load which means
> running in gear, hard to do at anchor.  I have been advised by several
> diesel mechanics over the years not to run the engine continuously in
> neutral as diesels are happiest when working.
>
> I also have been advised not to run anything off an inverter that
creates
> heat, such as hair dryer, toaster or microwave, as heat producing
appliances
> create a tremendous load on the battery.
>
> On both of these points, I only have what I have been told to go on but
they
> make sense to me so I follow them.
>
> On Sea Shadow, we do have a Honda 2000 generator that we have used
sparingly
> so far although with a short electric cord, it will power the A/C at
anchor.
> When rafted, Linda has used the generator to run the microwave and we
have
> used it only 1-2 times for battery charging.
>
> We also have a very small 100 watt inverter that will power the TV/DVD
> player for the grandkids; that is all we have used the inverter for.  We
> also installed 3 additional chart liter plugs for charging cell phones.
>
> At the end of the day, for the type of cruising we do, all of our power
> needs are met.
>
> Allan S. Field
> Sea Shadow - #808
> Columbia, MD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
> crashley at gte.net
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:41 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inverter - follow-up questions
>
> Here's my last input on this one, no pun intended.
>
> The detraction (for me) with the external generator approach on a C320
is
> that you have to store it, haul it out, connect it, keep it fueled, and
put
> it away when actually sailing, which after all is the primary purpose of
the
> boat. I'm sure these things are not monumental tasks and if you are
going to
> be moored or anchored for many days at a time it might be worth it but
for
> me the simplicity of having a battery powered inverter is more
attractive.
> Actually, the main reason I installed my inverter/charger is that I had
an
> OEM Pro-Mariner charger which I've heard can fail and kill your
batteries. I
> installed a small Magnum Energy MMS1012 1000W pure sinewave
inverter/charger
> which actually fits in the same place that the original charger was
located
> without any additional wiring except for the AC lines back to the AC
> distribution panel. I got an unbelievably good price on mine (I think it
was
> a mistake) but I think they go for about $1100, which admittedly is a
lot
> more than the price of a battery charger only. It has temperature
> compensated battery charging (probably pretty standard nowadays) which
my
> original charger did not have and I wanted badly when I replaced my
original
> flooded batteries with (more expensive) AGMs. Actually, I have yet to
> actually use the inverter function but I know it works. If you're only
> planning on using a couple hundred watts of load (TVs and such) I think
an
> inverter like I have is the way to go. Note: I don't have a microwave
oven,
> so that might lead to a different conclusion.
>
> The concern over running a diesel engine for a couple or hours a day to
> recharge batteries is unfounded as they should last at least 10,000
hours
> minimum. Okay, if you're a cruiser and run your engine an extra 2 hours
> charge every day it might be a concern. But in that case maybe you
should
> have a larger boat with an internal generator, or at least solar panels.
>
> CR Ashley
> Rosebud C320 Hull #882
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Dean
Vermeire
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 7:50 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inverter - follow-up questions
>
> Thanks.  That's pretty much what I figured.
>
> At this point, I'm thinking a long extension cord from the boat to the
dock
> is good enough for me.
>
>
> crashley at gte.net wrote:
>
>> Dean,
>>
>> I'm not sure anyone answered this but here's one for you.
>>
>> An inverter converts 12 VDC from the battery to 115 VAC @ 60 Hz (in the
>> U.S.) for the AC loads like a microwave. Most inverters also provide a
>> battery charging function when they have an external source of AC (like
at
>> the dock).
>>
>> The generator option (which I don't have) has the advantage that (when
it
>>
> is
>
>> running) it provides 115 VAC for the AC loads and can run the on-board
>> battery charger as well. It's true that running the boat's engine does
>>
> this
>
>> too, but the efficiency of the generator is probably better. The
generator
>> also uses a different fuel, gasoline, which you probably need on the
boat
>> anyway if you have a gasoline engine for the dinghy outboard. Cost-wise
>>
> I'm
>
>> not sure which one is better but inverter/chargers cost upwards of
$1000
>> (sometimes a lot more) and also usually require some additional heavy
>>
> gauge
>
>> DC cabling to be added depending on where you locate it. The external
>> generator is more of a "plug and play" approach.
>>
>> CR Ashley
>> Rosebud C320 Hull #882
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Dean
>>
> Vermeire
>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: [C320-list] Inverter - follow-up questions
>>
>> Hi again.
>>
>> Thanks for all the good input so far.  I hate to ask really stupid
>> questions, but somebody's got to do it.
>>
>> It seems to me that I've got two choices - put in an inverter that
takes
>>
> DC
>
>> from the batteries and runs them down while converting to AC, or put in
a
>> generator that uses some other energy source to run a motor that
generates
>> AC.  I look at the existing systems onboard, and I see a diesel motor
that
>> runs an alternator that produces DC to recharge my batteries.  I also
have
>> shore power (AC) that recharges the batteries by way of a battery
charger,
>> which I see listed in catalogs as a "battery charger / inverter".
>>
>> Stupid question #1:  Are they calling the battery chargert an inverter
>> because it is changing AC to DC?
>> Stupid question #2:  Why is a generator less expensive than a DC-to-AC
>> inverter, when the generator must have similar circuitry in it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dean Vermeire
>> Moonstruck II (#847)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.