[C320-list] Engine Stalling In Reverse

[Kirk McCullough]

I left my shaft full length and no vibration or other issues with it, just 
the comfort of knowing the ZF 10 will handle the power of the Perkins and 
the thrust of the Kiwi.

If it wasn't already a stainless shaft I would have replaced it with a 
shorter one, but my mechanic suggested to try it as is. He was right it 
works well.

Kirk
#124
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "warren updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine Stalling In Reverse


>
> Shawn, from my previous research, the shaft should extend beyond the 
> cutlass
> bearing not more than 1.5 X Dia. of the shaft.  That would be 1.5 inches 
> for
> us.  Longer than that you will have more vibration in the shaft, shorter
> bearing life, and who knows what else.  Add to that the possible greater
> stress from the Kiwi prop and you could have more problems.
>
> I have the std. 2-blade prop. When faced with the rebuild/replacement of 
> the
> Hurth 50, I realized the shaft would have to be extended. I opted for a
> rebuild. I would have preferred the ZF-10; but, felt I would have to pull
> the shaft and have it cut shorter or replace it.
>
> Were I in your position, I would replace the shaft with SS properly
> shortened, and replace the cutlass bearing as well. Best start with
> everything in Bristol condition.
>
> If you choose to cut or replace the shaft, it is also recommended that you
> take the coupling and shaft to a machine shop and have them cut the shaft
> and mount the coupling on the shaft.  They will insure that the mating 
> face
> of the coupling is perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the shaft. 
> Then,
> use the alignment technique and calculation form on our web site.  That 
> will
> insure that you will have the best possible alignment giving the lease
> possible vibration induced through the coupling.
>
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirk McCullough [mailto:kirk.mccullough at telus.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:13 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine Stalling In Reverse
>
> Shawn
>
> Yep, that's definitely the complete fix. Looks like you got a good price 
> on
> the ZF-10 too. One other thing, when I installed the Kiwi the recently
> rebuilt H-50 didn't last too long before it started slipping again. That's
> when I did the ZF-6 and it didn't last 30 minutes. I believe the Kiwi is
> really hard on the smaller gear box, so the ZF-10 is the ticket. This
> doesn't seem to be an issue with the Yanmar engine gearbox combo.
>
> I didn't need to change anything to install the ZF-10, and as I said I
> didn't even change the shaft length. If I didn't have a stainless shaft
> already at that point I would have shortened the shaft or ordered a new
> stainless shaft one inch shorter. I believe the actual length difference 
> was
> 7/8th of an inch. The strength of the stainless shaft means no issues even
> though it is longer aft of the cutlass bearing. My mechanic suggested this
> would not be a problem and it hasn't been.
>
> I do like the feeling that the gearbox is solid and up to the task of full
> power forward or reverse. The thing about the ZF-10 is that the clutch 
> pack
> is much stronger.
>
> I just can't say enough about the ZF agent in Seattle, they knew what the
> solution was and did it all for the price of a new ZF-6. No questions
> asked.WOW!
>
> Good luck Shawn!
>
>
> Kirk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Shawn 
> Maloney
> Sent: 19 May 2009 19:58
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine Stalling In Reverse
>
>
> Kirk thanks for the reply.  I know you have the same
> boat/gearbox/engine/kiwi prop as I do.  The shudder is more pronounced
> because of the kiwi prop being at maximum pitch in reverse, although it 
> did
> shudder with the fixed prop as well.
>
> I believe the idle gear may be loose (caused by the more pronounce shudder
> of the kiwi??) and one explanation is that it angles out when it is under 
> a
> load, thus catching and causing the engine to stall out hard.
>
> Anyhow, I have ordered the ZF 10 M gearbox as you did because it is more
> suitable to the specs of the Perkins.  Plus I have 1800 hours on it and it
> provides the quickest fix.  J.D. at marine parts express is shipping one 
> out
> for $1019 US$.
>
> This transmission is identical to the HBW 50 except that it is one inch
> longer.  Did you have to modify anything else on installation?  I plan to
> back out the shaft on inch.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Kirk
> McCullough
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine Stalling In Reverse
>
> Shawn
>
> I have a 1994 with the Perkins. I have never had it stall as I go into
> reverse, but the Perkins shakes and shudders on its mounts if the RPM are
> too low. I suppose it might stall if I didn't quickly raise the RPM once 
> in
> reverse. I shift at 900-1000rpm then pick it up to 1200 or more to avoid 
> the
> shaking.
>
> What kind of prop do you have, how many hours on the Perkins and Hurth? 
> The
> prop might be over-pitched in reverse.
>
> You may need to have the Hurth rebuilt including the clutch pack, as you
> found out I don't believe the damper plate does a whole lot to the stop
> shuddering or stalling.
>
> I actually changed mine to a Hurth 100, from the 50 they come with. It's
> good for something like 55 hp, while the 50 is rated to 29, so it's at its
> limit.
>
> I would play with the RPM's to see if that helps and maybe get the Hurth
> upgraded to a 100. Hurth is now actually owned by ZF and the new model is
> the ZF-5 (Hurth 50), ZF-6 (an upgraded Hurth 50) or ZF-10 (Hurth 100)
>
> Kirk
> #124
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Shawn 
> Maloney
> Sent: 14 May 2009 19:00
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Engine Stalling In Reverse
>
>
> My 1993 Catalina has the Perkins engine and Hurth gearbox.  At the end of
> the season last year it would instantly stall out when placed in reverse.
> Over the winter I took the transmission out and opened it up.  Everything
> looked find (not metal filings etc).  I replaced all the gaskets and it 
> was
> also suggested that the damper plate be replaced as this was usually the
> cause of such a failure.  Well today,  I installed the overhauled tranny 
> and
> same result.
>
>
>
> Any other thoughts out there?
>
>
>
> Shawn Hull #14
>
>
>