[C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels

[Pat Kenefick]

I am beginning to research the use of solar panels so that I can avoid 
having to start the engine every day when I am on the hook or moored. I 
would like to know from those who have installed panels what size in terms 
of wattage did you install and is there a specific brand that is recommended 
? I have the Catalina standard refrigeration, TV, radio system, fans etc..
Thank you
Pat Kenefick
Cynthia Gale
Bath , NC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:00 PM
Subject: C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Battery boxes (Warren Updike)
>   2. Re: Bird Problem (Joseph Aberdale)
>   3. Re: Battery boxes (djgleason1 at juno.com)
>   4. Equalization (Paul Rickman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:29:21 -0400
> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
> Message-ID: <BAY156-ds5DD1CA89C62750CCB4F89BE9A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization are not the
> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at high
> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended to force the
> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the cells to 
> gas
> excessively.  Conditioning can be done over a long period of time without
> monitoring.  Equalization is a process that must be carefully monitored to
> avoid damaging the cells.
>
> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for any other
> comments on either process.
>
> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't have an
> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a controversial
> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future product
> versions.  I have never performed an equalization.
>
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi John,
>
> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would normally have
> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be taken 
> before
> using this mode.
>
> I have lifeline 4Ds.  They're great in my situation because of the long
> winter layup we have.  I can disconnect them and ignore them all winter 
> and
> they're still fully charged after 6 mos.  Standard Flooded batteries
> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>
> What charger do you have?  The mfgr could clear up the equalization mode
> question for you.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Great info Bill!  Thanks.  It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs  are the 
> way
> to go.  My charging system is the three stage type so I  will have to
> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage.  I  hear that 
> you
> can
> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of  the recharge
> process.  It looks like a little more research is in  order on my part?
>
> John  #329
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> John,
> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid  batteries.  For AGMs I
> feel
> that Lifeline's are the  Rolls-Royce.  I replaced my original Exide Gold's
> with 2
> LifeLine  4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out of the
> Exide's.
> The  Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of years and I'm
> sold on
> the advantages of AGMs.  Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had lots  of
> trouble
> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>
> -bill
> Harmony  #859
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:  "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
> To:  C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
> Subject:  Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi Larry:  Thanks for the  info.  My boat is paid for so this isn't an
> insurance issue.  I  was just curious.  I like doing things correctly and
> just
> couldn't  understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right thing" 
> when
> it
> came  to battery boxes.  Apparently Catalina is doing the right thing.
>
> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me with the
> wealth of information that has been sent.  Whatever they are paying  you
> guys, it
>
> isn't enough.
>
> Larry, you mentioned two  other types of batteries; AGMs and Gells.  I was
> under the  understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls Royce of
> batteries?  For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery would
> provide
> the
>
> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as  the 4D?  The 4Ds I
> am about to replace have been in service for over  10 years and are only
> now
> beginning to have issues.
>
> One  thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a battery box is
> that  there has been some acid leakage down the battery and onto the
> fiberglass.  The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds  strong.
>
> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass  issue?
>
> John #  329
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:41:57 -0400
> From: Joseph Aberdale <summerwind3 at comcast.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bird Problem
> Message-ID: <FB79DFA6-F01D-4498-8378-C4CE60CDEE07 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Do they use monofilament and how do they mount it  to the mast and
> shroud?  I have an in mast furling mainsail so I would be reluctant
> to put screws into the mast.  Thanks.
>
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:15 PM, David J Cardoza wrote:
>
>> Not sure where you're from but almost everyone where we keep our
>> boat on
>> Buzzards Bay on Cape Cod has trip lines wired across about 3 to 5
>> inches
>> above our spreaders. It's very effective.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL
>> COLE
>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 12:17 AM
>> To: Catalina320
>> Subject: [C320-list] Bird Problem
>>
>> Joe I don't know whether your gulls are more agressive than the
>> ones we
>> have in Sydney but I bought a plastic owl and slung it up on the
>> spinnaker topping lift so that it hangs midway between the mast and
>> the
>> pulpit--it seems to work OK. There is another 320 moored out a
>> couple of
>> hundred yards away with the same type of owl sitting on pushpit rail
>> together with old CDs strung on lines from bow to stern
>>                    Mike Cole  #421 Mio Dio
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:45:45 -0400
> From: djgleason1 at juno.com
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
> Message-ID: <20100815.104645.48.229285 at mailpop06.dca.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Bob:
>
> In response to your question regarding the breaker panel on the port side
> is:  The original placement of the  4 D batteries was one on the port
> side just forward of the nav table.  The other was placed on the
> starboard side.  On hull #150, the previous owner moved the port battery
> to the starboard side.  I do not know when Catalina made the change to
> both on the starboard side.
>
> Dave Gleason, #150
> Proud Mary
>
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:01:40 -0400 Robert Seastream
> <robert.seastream at comcast.net> writes:
>> This raises another question.  Why did Catalina put the breaker panel
>>
>> to port (at least on my model), rather than starboard where the
>> batteries are?
>> I'd think placing the breaker panel to starboard would have reduced
>>
>> some cable runs and their inherent voltage drop.
>>
>> Bob Seastream
>> Intuition # 906
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I can't say whose right.  *I* believe Catalina however.  With well
>>
>> > over 1000 hulls built and shipped all over the world this way,
>> it's
>> > a non-issue for the intended use of the boat in my opinion.
>> >
>> > Given that the batteries are in a well protected area and securely
>>
>> > held down, sit in a spill tray,  there's little to be gained by a
>>
>> > battery box. One wouldn't fit anyway without downsizing the
>> batteries.
>> >
>> > The real danger of flooded batteries I've heard is the chance of
>>
>> > seawater contacting battery acid. A box won't likely solve that
>> > since they MUST be we'll vented.
>> >
>> > If using the boat for serious offshore use you'd use AGMs anyway
>> for
>> > maximum safety.
>> > Just keep the 4Ds we'll secured and enjoy the boat.
>> >
>> > -Jeff
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>> > Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:58:15
>> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> > Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> > Subject: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>> >
>> > In April I bought a beautiful Catalina 320.  During the survey,
>> the
>> > surveyor noted that the Catalina's three batteries were not in
>> > battery boxes.  The
>> > broker said that Catalina has a waiver for the 320 and the boats
>> come
>> > without battery boxes from the factory.  The surveyor had never
>> > heard this and
>> > didn't believe it.  The surveyor believed that the Coast Guard
>> would
>> > have a
>> > serious problem with a boat that had its batteries that were not in
>>
>> > battery
>> > boxes.
>> >
>> > So, who's correct?
>> >
>> > Due to the age of the batteries, it is time for me to replace all
>>
>> > three
>> > batteries and this would be a great time to place the batteries in
>>
>> > boxes if it
>> > is truly required by the Coast Guard. Just for the sake of safety,
>> I
>> > believe
>> > I should place the batteries in boxes but I am curious as to the
>>
>> > broker's
>> > veracity on this subject.
>> >
>> > Is there anyone out there who can state categorically and without
>> a
>> > doubt
>> > who is correct, the surveyor or the broker?
>> >
>> > If the Battery boxes are truly required, It appears I will be
>> somewhat
>> > challenged due to the space available to me.  The group 27,
>> starting
>> > battery is
>> > up in the front of the starboard settee and just behind it is the
>>
>> > first of
>> > two Rolls, 4Ds.  The second 4D is in the compartment just behind
>> the
>> > other
>> > two batteries.  I think the problem is going to be getting the
>> group
>> > 27
>> > battery in a box due to its location at the front of the settee.
>> >
>> > So, how do the rest of you 320 battery box people do it?
>> >
>> > Thanks for any input you care to share.
>> >
>> > John.  #329
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Project Management Cert
> Villanova PMP&#174 & CAPM&#174 Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c68281da6e846e5ea1st05duc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 11:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul Rickman <ilove2sail at verizon.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Equalization
> Message-ID: <910593.70958.qm at web84306.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Here is one opion:
>
> http://shop.pkys.com/battery-equalization.aspx
>
> There are others that can be searched out.
>
> The Xantrex True Charge 20 has an equalizer but
> it must be manually turned on. It can be turned off
> by simply cutting the power to the unit.
>
> Paul
> Affinity 657
> Bay Bridge Marina
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 4:29:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization are not the
> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at high
> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended to force the
> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the cells to 
> gas
> excessively.? Conditioning can be done over a long period of time without
> monitoring.? Equalization is a process that must be carefully monitored to
> avoid damaging the cells.?
>
> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for any other
> comments on either process.
>
> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't have an
> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a controversial
> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future product
> versions.? I have never performed an equalization.
>
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi John,
>
> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would normally have
> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be taken 
> before
> using this mode.
>
> I have lifeline 4Ds.? They're great in my situation because of the long
> winter layup we have.? I can disconnect them and ignore them all winter 
> and
> they're still fully charged after 6 mos.? Standard Flooded batteries
> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>
> What charger do you have?? The mfgr could clear up the equalization mode
> question for you.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Great info Bill!? Thanks.? It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs? are the 
> way
> to go.? My charging system is the three stage type so I? will have to
> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage.? I? hear that 
> you
> can
> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of? the recharge
> process.? It looks like a little more research is in? order on my part??
>
> John? #329
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,?
> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> John,
> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid? batteries.? For AGMs I
> feel
> that Lifeline's are the? Rolls-Royce.? I replaced my original Exide Gold's
> with 2
> LifeLine? 4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out of the
> Exide's.
> The? Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of years and I'm
> sold on?
> the advantages of AGMs.? Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had lots? of
> trouble
> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>
> -bill
> Harmony? #859
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:? "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
> To:? C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
> Subject:? Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi Larry:? Thanks for the? info.? My boat is paid for so this isn't an
> insurance issue.? I? was just curious.? I like doing things correctly and
> just
> couldn't? understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right thing" 
> when
> it
> came? to battery boxes.? Apparently Catalina is doing the right thing.?
>
> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me with the?
> wealth of information that has been sent.? Whatever they are paying? you
> guys, it
>
> isn't enough.?
>
> Larry, you mentioned two? other types of batteries; AGMs and Gells.? I was
> under the? understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls Royce of?
> batteries?? For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery would?
> provide
> the
>
> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as? the 4D?? The 4Ds I
> am about to replace have been in service for over? 10 years and are only
> now
> beginning to have issues.?
>
> One? thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a battery box is
> that? there has been some acid leakage down the battery and onto the?
> fiberglass.? The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds? strong.?
>
> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass? issue??
>
> John #? 329
>
> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2
> *****************************************