[C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels

[Warren Updike]

Pat, if you are more than a week-end cruiser consider upgrading to a high
output alternator and external regulator. With good batteries, battery
monitor, and hi o/p alt. I can go 2 days without charging. When I do charge,
it's much faster with the Hi o/p alt. I also have a separate starting
battery so starting doesn't rely on the house batteries. Oh, and paralleling
the two 4Ds means more total amp hours and more life for the bank.

There are solutions on the C320 web site.  If you want my project article
that ran in the Mainsheet, e-mail me off-list and I'll send it to you.

Warren & Pattie Updike
1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Kenefick [mailto:pkenefick at embarqmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:50 AM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels

I am beginning to research the use of solar panels so that I can avoid 
having to start the engine every day when I am on the hook or moored. I 
would like to know from those who have installed panels what size in terms 
of wattage did you install and is there a specific brand that is recommended

? I have the Catalina standard refrigeration, TV, radio system, fans etc..
Thank you
Pat Kenefick
Cynthia Gale
Bath , NC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:00 PM
Subject: C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Battery boxes (Warren Updike)
>   2. Re: Bird Problem (Joseph Aberdale)
>   3. Re: Battery boxes (djgleason1 at juno.com)
>   4. Equalization (Paul Rickman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:29:21 -0400
> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
> Message-ID: <BAY156-ds5DD1CA89C62750CCB4F89BE9A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization are not the
> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at high
> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended to force the
> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the cells to 
> gas
> excessively.  Conditioning can be done over a long period of time without
> monitoring.  Equalization is a process that must be carefully monitored to
> avoid damaging the cells.
>
> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for any other
> comments on either process.
>
> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't have an
> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a controversial
> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future product
> versions.  I have never performed an equalization.
>
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi John,
>
> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would normally have
> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be taken 
> before
> using this mode.
>
> I have lifeline 4Ds.  They're great in my situation because of the long
> winter layup we have.  I can disconnect them and ignore them all winter 
> and
> they're still fully charged after 6 mos.  Standard Flooded batteries
> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>
> What charger do you have?  The mfgr could clear up the equalization mode
> question for you.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Great info Bill!  Thanks.  It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs  are the 
> way
> to go.  My charging system is the three stage type so I  will have to
> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage.  I  hear that 
> you
> can
> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of  the recharge
> process.  It looks like a little more research is in  order on my part?
>
> John  #329
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> John,
> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid  batteries.  For AGMs I
> feel
> that Lifeline's are the  Rolls-Royce.  I replaced my original Exide Gold's
> with 2
> LifeLine  4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out of the
> Exide's.
> The  Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of years and I'm
> sold on
> the advantages of AGMs.  Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had lots  of
> trouble
> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>
> -bill
> Harmony  #859
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:  "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
> To:  C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
> Subject:  Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi Larry:  Thanks for the  info.  My boat is paid for so this isn't an
> insurance issue.  I  was just curious.  I like doing things correctly and
> just
> couldn't  understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right thing" 
> when
> it
> came  to battery boxes.  Apparently Catalina is doing the right thing.
>
> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me with the
> wealth of information that has been sent.  Whatever they are paying  you
> guys, it
>
> isn't enough.
>
> Larry, you mentioned two  other types of batteries; AGMs and Gells.  I was
> under the  understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls Royce of
> batteries?  For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery would
> provide
> the
>
> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as  the 4D?  The 4Ds I
> am about to replace have been in service for over  10 years and are only
> now
> beginning to have issues.
>
> One  thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a battery box is
> that  there has been some acid leakage down the battery and onto the
> fiberglass.  The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds  strong.
>
> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass  issue?
>
> John #  329
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:41:57 -0400
> From: Joseph Aberdale <summerwind3 at comcast.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bird Problem
> Message-ID: <FB79DFA6-F01D-4498-8378-C4CE60CDEE07 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Do they use monofilament and how do they mount it  to the mast and
> shroud?  I have an in mast furling mainsail so I would be reluctant
> to put screws into the mast.  Thanks.
>
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:15 PM, David J Cardoza wrote:
>
>> Not sure where you're from but almost everyone where we keep our
>> boat on
>> Buzzards Bay on Cape Cod has trip lines wired across about 3 to 5
>> inches
>> above our spreaders. It's very effective.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL
>> COLE
>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 12:17 AM
>> To: Catalina320
>> Subject: [C320-list] Bird Problem
>>
>> Joe I don't know whether your gulls are more agressive than the
>> ones we
>> have in Sydney but I bought a plastic owl and slung it up on the
>> spinnaker topping lift so that it hangs midway between the mast and
>> the
>> pulpit--it seems to work OK. There is another 320 moored out a
>> couple of
>> hundred yards away with the same type of owl sitting on pushpit rail
>> together with old CDs strung on lines from bow to stern
>>                    Mike Cole  #421 Mio Dio
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:45:45 -0400
> From: djgleason1 at juno.com
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Cc: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
> Message-ID: <20100815.104645.48.229285 at mailpop06.dca.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Bob:
>
> In response to your question regarding the breaker panel on the port side
> is:  The original placement of the  4 D batteries was one on the port
> side just forward of the nav table.  The other was placed on the
> starboard side.  On hull #150, the previous owner moved the port battery
> to the starboard side.  I do not know when Catalina made the change to
> both on the starboard side.
>
> Dave Gleason, #150
> Proud Mary
>
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:01:40 -0400 Robert Seastream
> <robert.seastream at comcast.net> writes:
>> This raises another question.  Why did Catalina put the breaker panel
>>
>> to port (at least on my model), rather than starboard where the
>> batteries are?
>> I'd think placing the breaker panel to starboard would have reduced
>>
>> some cable runs and their inherent voltage drop.
>>
>> Bob Seastream
>> Intuition # 906
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I can't say whose right.  *I* believe Catalina however.  With well
>>
>> > over 1000 hulls built and shipped all over the world this way,
>> it's
>> > a non-issue for the intended use of the boat in my opinion.
>> >
>> > Given that the batteries are in a well protected area and securely
>>
>> > held down, sit in a spill tray,  there's little to be gained by a
>>
>> > battery box. One wouldn't fit anyway without downsizing the
>> batteries.
>> >
>> > The real danger of flooded batteries I've heard is the chance of
>>
>> > seawater contacting battery acid. A box won't likely solve that
>> > since they MUST be we'll vented.
>> >
>> > If using the boat for serious offshore use you'd use AGMs anyway
>> for
>> > maximum safety.
>> > Just keep the 4Ds we'll secured and enjoy the boat.
>> >
>> > -Jeff
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>> > Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:58:15
>> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> > Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> > Subject: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>> >
>> > In April I bought a beautiful Catalina 320.  During the survey,
>> the
>> > surveyor noted that the Catalina's three batteries were not in
>> > battery boxes.  The
>> > broker said that Catalina has a waiver for the 320 and the boats
>> come
>> > without battery boxes from the factory.  The surveyor had never
>> > heard this and
>> > didn't believe it.  The surveyor believed that the Coast Guard
>> would
>> > have a
>> > serious problem with a boat that had its batteries that were not in
>>
>> > battery
>> > boxes.
>> >
>> > So, who's correct?
>> >
>> > Due to the age of the batteries, it is time for me to replace all
>>
>> > three
>> > batteries and this would be a great time to place the batteries in
>>
>> > boxes if it
>> > is truly required by the Coast Guard. Just for the sake of safety,
>> I
>> > believe
>> > I should place the batteries in boxes but I am curious as to the
>>
>> > broker's
>> > veracity on this subject.
>> >
>> > Is there anyone out there who can state categorically and without
>> a
>> > doubt
>> > who is correct, the surveyor or the broker?
>> >
>> > If the Battery boxes are truly required, It appears I will be
>> somewhat
>> > challenged due to the space available to me.  The group 27,
>> starting
>> > battery is
>> > up in the front of the starboard settee and just behind it is the
>>
>> > first of
>> > two Rolls, 4Ds.  The second 4D is in the compartment just behind
>> the
>> > other
>> > two batteries.  I think the problem is going to be getting the
>> group
>> > 27
>> > battery in a box due to its location at the front of the settee.
>> >
>> > So, how do the rest of you 320 battery box people do it?
>> >
>> > Thanks for any input you care to share.
>> >
>> > John.  #329
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Project Management Cert
> Villanova PMP&#174 & CAPM&#174 Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c68281da6e846e5ea1st05duc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 11:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul Rickman <ilove2sail at verizon.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Equalization
> Message-ID: <910593.70958.qm at web84306.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Here is one opion:
>
> http://shop.pkys.com/battery-equalization.aspx
>
> There are others that can be searched out.
>
> The Xantrex True Charge 20 has an equalizer but
> it must be manually turned on. It can be turned off
> by simply cutting the power to the unit.
>
> Paul
> Affinity 657
> Bay Bridge Marina
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 4:29:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization are not the
> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at high
> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended to force the
> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the cells to 
> gas
> excessively.? Conditioning can be done over a long period of time without
> monitoring.? Equalization is a process that must be carefully monitored to
> avoid damaging the cells.?
>
> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for any other
> comments on either process.
>
> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't have an
> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a controversial
> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future product
> versions.? I have never performed an equalization.
>
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi John,
>
> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would normally have
> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be taken 
> before
> using this mode.
>
> I have lifeline 4Ds.? They're great in my situation because of the long
> winter layup we have.? I can disconnect them and ignore them all winter 
> and
> they're still fully charged after 6 mos.? Standard Flooded batteries
> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>
> What charger do you have?? The mfgr could clear up the equalization mode
> question for you.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Great info Bill!? Thanks.? It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs? are the 
> way
> to go.? My charging system is the three stage type so I? will have to
> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage.? I? hear that 
> you
> can
> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of? the recharge
> process.? It looks like a little more research is in? order on my part??
>
> John? #329
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,?
> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> John,
> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid? batteries.? For AGMs I
> feel
> that Lifeline's are the? Rolls-Royce.? I replaced my original Exide Gold's
> with 2
> LifeLine? 4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out of the
> Exide's.
> The? Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of years and I'm
> sold on?
> the advantages of AGMs.? Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had lots? of
> trouble
> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>
> -bill
> Harmony? #859
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:? "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
> To:? C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
> Subject:? Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>
> Hi Larry:? Thanks for the? info.? My boat is paid for so this isn't an
> insurance issue.? I? was just curious.? I like doing things correctly and
> just
> couldn't? understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right thing" 
> when
> it
> came? to battery boxes.? Apparently Catalina is doing the right thing.?
>
> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me with the?
> wealth of information that has been sent.? Whatever they are paying? you
> guys, it
>
> isn't enough.?
>
> Larry, you mentioned two? other types of batteries; AGMs and Gells.? I was
> under the? understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls Royce of?
> batteries?? For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery would?
> provide
> the
>
> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as? the 4D?? The 4Ds I
> am about to replace have been in service for over? 10 years and are only
> now
> beginning to have issues.?
>
> One? thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a battery box is
> that? there has been some acid leakage down the battery and onto the?
> fiberglass.? The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds? strong.?
>
> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass? issue??
>
> John #? 329
>
> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2
> *****************************************