[C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
Warren Updike
wupdike at hotmail.com
Tue Aug 17 19:19:57 PDT 2010
Sam, understand I am no expert. I've done my own project with the help of an
expert, done the research, and know what I know. What I don't know would
fill a library. What I know is this:
Perkins engine: not std alternator mount, 3/8" belt, max alternator will be
about 80A
Yanmar engine: std auto mount for alternator, 1/2" belt, max alternator will
be around 100-120A
Balmar is the definitive mfg. for small marine diesels. Other heavy duty
alts are available. I used an Amptec. Do not use a std. automotive
alternator. Pay more, get more.
I have the Perkins M30. The most tedious part of the project was the
adjustment arm. I had to design my own and have it made. Maybe there is a
better approach. I didn't find it.
Warren & Pattie Updike
1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Weston [mailto:ssweston at embarqmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:03 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
What size and brand of alternator is most common ? Mariah 585
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:17 PM
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
> Pat, if you are more than a week-end cruiser consider upgrading to a high
> output alternator and external regulator. With good batteries, battery
> monitor, and hi o/p alt. I can go 2 days without charging. When I do
> charge,
> it's much faster with the Hi o/p alt. I also have a separate starting
> battery so starting doesn't rely on the house batteries. Oh, and
> paralleling
> the two 4Ds means more total amp hours and more life for the bank.
>
> There are solutions on the C320 web site. If you want my project article
> that ran in the Mainsheet, e-mail me off-list and I'll send it to you.
>
> Warren & Pattie Updike
> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Kenefick [mailto:pkenefick at embarqmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:50 AM
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
>
> I am beginning to research the use of solar panels so that I can avoid
> having to start the engine every day when I am on the hook or moored. I
> would like to know from those who have installed panels what size in terms
> of wattage did you install and is there a specific brand that is
> recommended
>
> ? I have the Catalina standard refrigeration, TV, radio system, fans etc..
> Thank you
> Pat Kenefick
> Cynthia Gale
> Bath , NC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
> To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:00 PM
> Subject: C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2
>
>
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>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Battery boxes (Warren Updike)
>> 2. Re: Bird Problem (Joseph Aberdale)
>> 3. Re: Battery boxes (djgleason1 at juno.com)
>> 4. Equalization (Paul Rickman)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:29:21 -0400
>> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>> Message-ID: <BAY156-ds5DD1CA89C62750CCB4F89BE9A0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization are not the
>> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at high
>> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended to force
>> the
>> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the cells to
>> gas
>> excessively. Conditioning can be done over a long period of time without
>> monitoring. Equalization is a process that must be carefully monitored
>> to
>> avoid damaging the cells.
>>
>> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for any other
>> comments on either process.
>>
>> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't have an
>> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a controversial
>> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future product
>> versions. I have never performed an equalization.
>>
>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
>> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would normally
>> have
>> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be taken
>> before
>> using this mode.
>>
>> I have lifeline 4Ds. They're great in my situation because of the long
>> winter layup we have. I can disconnect them and ignore them all winter
>> and
>> they're still fully charged after 6 mos. Standard Flooded batteries
>> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>>
>> What charger do you have? The mfgr could clear up the equalization mode
>> question for you.
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Great info Bill! Thanks. It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs are the
>> way
>> to go. My charging system is the three stage type so I will have to
>> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage. I hear that
>> you
>> can
>> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of the recharge
>> process. It looks like a little more research is in order on my part?
>>
>> John #329
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> John,
>> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid batteries. For AGMs
>> I
>> feel
>> that Lifeline's are the Rolls-Royce. I replaced my original Exide
>> Gold's
>> with 2
>> LifeLine 4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out of the
>> Exide's.
>> The Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of years and I'm
>> sold on
>> the advantages of AGMs. Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had lots of
>> trouble
>> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
>> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>>
>> -bill
>> Harmony #859
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Hi Larry: Thanks for the info. My boat is paid for so this isn't an
>> insurance issue. I was just curious. I like doing things correctly and
>> just
>> couldn't understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right thing"
>> when
>> it
>> came to battery boxes. Apparently Catalina is doing the right thing.
>>
>> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me with the
>> wealth of information that has been sent. Whatever they are paying you
>> guys, it
>>
>> isn't enough.
>>
>> Larry, you mentioned two other types of batteries; AGMs and Gells. I
>> was
>> under the understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls Royce of
>> batteries? For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery would
>> provide
>> the
>>
>> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as the 4D? The 4Ds
>> I
>> am about to replace have been in service for over 10 years and are only
>> now
>> beginning to have issues.
>>
>> One thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a battery box
>> is
>> that there has been some acid leakage down the battery and onto the
>> fiberglass. The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds strong.
>>
>> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass issue?
>>
>> John # 329
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:41:57 -0400
>> From: Joseph Aberdale <summerwind3 at comcast.net>
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bird Problem
>> Message-ID: <FB79DFA6-F01D-4498-8378-C4CE60CDEE07 at comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> Do they use monofilament and how do they mount it to the mast and
>> shroud? I have an in mast furling mainsail so I would be reluctant
>> to put screws into the mast. Thanks.
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:15 PM, David J Cardoza wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure where you're from but almost everyone where we keep our
>>> boat on
>>> Buzzards Bay on Cape Cod has trip lines wired across about 3 to 5
>>> inches
>>> above our spreaders. It's very effective.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL
>>> COLE
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 12:17 AM
>>> To: Catalina320
>>> Subject: [C320-list] Bird Problem
>>>
>>> Joe I don't know whether your gulls are more agressive than the
>>> ones we
>>> have in Sydney but I bought a plastic owl and slung it up on the
>>> spinnaker topping lift so that it hangs midway between the mast and
>>> the
>>> pulpit--it seems to work OK. There is another 320 moored out a
>>> couple of
>>> hundred yards away with the same type of owl sitting on pushpit rail
>>> together with old CDs strung on lines from bow to stern
>>> Mike Cole #421 Mio Dio
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:45:45 -0400
>> From: djgleason1 at juno.com
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Cc: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>> Message-ID: <20100815.104645.48.229285 at mailpop06.dca.untd.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Bob:
>>
>> In response to your question regarding the breaker panel on the port side
>> is: The original placement of the 4 D batteries was one on the port
>> side just forward of the nav table. The other was placed on the
>> starboard side. On hull #150, the previous owner moved the port battery
>> to the starboard side. I do not know when Catalina made the change to
>> both on the starboard side.
>>
>> Dave Gleason, #150
>> Proud Mary
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:01:40 -0400 Robert Seastream
>> <robert.seastream at comcast.net> writes:
>>> This raises another question. Why did Catalina put the breaker panel
>>>
>>> to port (at least on my model), rather than starboard where the
>>> batteries are?
>>> I'd think placing the breaker panel to starboard would have reduced
>>>
>>> some cable runs and their inherent voltage drop.
>>>
>>> Bob Seastream
>>> Intuition # 906
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I can't say whose right. *I* believe Catalina however. With well
>>>
>>> > over 1000 hulls built and shipped all over the world this way,
>>> it's
>>> > a non-issue for the intended use of the boat in my opinion.
>>> >
>>> > Given that the batteries are in a well protected area and securely
>>>
>>> > held down, sit in a spill tray, there's little to be gained by a
>>>
>>> > battery box. One wouldn't fit anyway without downsizing the
>>> batteries.
>>> >
>>> > The real danger of flooded batteries I've heard is the chance of
>>>
>>> > seawater contacting battery acid. A box won't likely solve that
>>> > since they MUST be we'll vented.
>>> >
>>> > If using the boat for serious offshore use you'd use AGMs anyway
>>> for
>>> > maximum safety.
>>> > Just keep the 4Ds we'll secured and enjoy the boat.
>>> >
>>> > -Jeff
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>>> > Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>> > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:58:15
>>> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>> > Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>> > Subject: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>> >
>>> > In April I bought a beautiful Catalina 320. During the survey,
>>> the
>>> > surveyor noted that the Catalina's three batteries were not in
>>> > battery boxes. The
>>> > broker said that Catalina has a waiver for the 320 and the boats
>>> come
>>> > without battery boxes from the factory. The surveyor had never
>>> > heard this and
>>> > didn't believe it. The surveyor believed that the Coast Guard
>>> would
>>> > have a
>>> > serious problem with a boat that had its batteries that were not in
>>>
>>> > battery
>>> > boxes.
>>> >
>>> > So, who's correct?
>>> >
>>> > Due to the age of the batteries, it is time for me to replace all
>>>
>>> > three
>>> > batteries and this would be a great time to place the batteries in
>>>
>>> > boxes if it
>>> > is truly required by the Coast Guard. Just for the sake of safety,
>>> I
>>> > believe
>>> > I should place the batteries in boxes but I am curious as to the
>>>
>>> > broker's
>>> > veracity on this subject.
>>> >
>>> > Is there anyone out there who can state categorically and without
>>> a
>>> > doubt
>>> > who is correct, the surveyor or the broker?
>>> >
>>> > If the Battery boxes are truly required, It appears I will be
>>> somewhat
>>> > challenged due to the space available to me. The group 27,
>>> starting
>>> > battery is
>>> > up in the front of the starboard settee and just behind it is the
>>>
>>> > first of
>>> > two Rolls, 4Ds. The second 4D is in the compartment just behind
>>> the
>>> > other
>>> > two batteries. I think the problem is going to be getting the
>>> group
>>> > 27
>>> > battery in a box due to its location at the front of the settee.
>>> >
>>> > So, how do the rest of you 320 battery box people do it?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for any input you care to share.
>>> >
>>> > John. #329
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Project Management Cert
>> Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c68281da6e846e5ea1st05duc
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 11:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Paul Rickman <ilove2sail at verizon.net>
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: [C320-list] Equalization
>> Message-ID: <910593.70958.qm at web84306.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Here is one opion:
>>
>> http://shop.pkys.com/battery-equalization.aspx
>>
>> There are others that can be searched out.
>>
>> The Xantrex True Charge 20 has an equalizer but
>> it must be manually turned on. It can be turned off
>> by simply cutting the power to the unit.
>>
>> Paul
>> Affinity 657
>> Bay Bridge Marina
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 4:29:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization are not the
>> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at high
>> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended to force
>> the
>> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the cells to
>> gas
>> excessively.? Conditioning can be done over a long period of time without
>> monitoring.? Equalization is a process that must be carefully monitored
>> to
>> avoid damaging the cells.?
>>
>> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for any other
>> comments on either process.
>>
>> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't have an
>> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a controversial
>> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future product
>> versions.? I have never performed an equalization.
>>
>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
>> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would normally
>> have
>> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be taken
>> before
>> using this mode.
>>
>> I have lifeline 4Ds.? They're great in my situation because of the long
>> winter layup we have.? I can disconnect them and ignore them all winter
>> and
>> they're still fully charged after 6 mos.? Standard Flooded batteries
>> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>>
>> What charger do you have?? The mfgr could clear up the equalization mode
>> question for you.
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Great info Bill!? Thanks.? It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs? are the
>> way
>> to go.? My charging system is the three stage type so I? will have to
>> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage.? I? hear that
>> you
>> can
>> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of? the recharge
>> process.? It looks like a little more research is in? order on my part??
>>
>> John? #329
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,?
>> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> John,
>> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid? batteries.? For AGMs
>> I
>> feel
>> that Lifeline's are the? Rolls-Royce.? I replaced my original Exide
>> Gold's
>> with 2
>> LifeLine? 4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out of the
>> Exide's.
>> The? Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of years and I'm
>> sold on?
>> the advantages of AGMs.? Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had lots? of
>> trouble
>> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
>> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>>
>> -bill
>> Harmony? #859
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From:? "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
>> To:? C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
>> Subject:? Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>
>> Hi Larry:? Thanks for the? info.? My boat is paid for so this isn't an
>> insurance issue.? I? was just curious.? I like doing things correctly and
>> just
>> couldn't? understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right thing"
>> when
>> it
>> came? to battery boxes.? Apparently Catalina is doing the right thing.?
>>
>> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me with the?
>> wealth of information that has been sent.? Whatever they are paying? you
>> guys, it
>>
>> isn't enough.?
>>
>> Larry, you mentioned two? other types of batteries; AGMs and Gells.? I
>> was
>> under the? understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls Royce of?
>> batteries?? For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery would?
>> provide
>> the
>>
>> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as? the 4D?? The 4Ds
>> I
>> am about to replace have been in service for over? 10 years and are only
>> now
>> beginning to have issues.?
>>
>> One? thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a battery box
>> is
>> that? there has been some acid leakage down the battery and onto the?
>> fiberglass.? The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds? strong.?
>>
>> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass? issue??
>>
>> John #? 329
>>
>> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2
>> *****************************************
>
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