[C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
Robert Seastream
robert.seastream at comcast.net
Wed Aug 18 13:39:30 PDT 2010
Scott:
If your boat sits on its' mooring mon-fri (like mine) with the bilge
pump (running perhaps once daily) being the only load, I'd think a 15
watt solar panel could do for keeping the batteries up. Rigid 15 watt
solar panels are available from WM (and others) for about $150,
flexible panels for about double that. The rigid panels don't stand
up to abuse well (they crack easily), so you'd be better off going the
extra bucks for the flexible one.
The above also presumes your batteries are fairly charged (~75
percent) at the end of your daysail. If not, you'd need the biggest
single panel available (~130 watts) along with the required regulator
and a place to mount it. That's about a $1000 solution, like any
heavy duty charging solution is.
Bob Seastream
Intuition # 906
On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Dave Anderer wrote:
> If you're not finding the answers you need here, you might try other
> resources. Personally, my favorite is Calder.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Scott Thompson <surprise at thompson87.com
> >wrote:
>
>> All very interesting, but the question was about solar panels. If
>> anyone
>> has anything to contribute on that, I'm also interested, since a good
>> alternator is NOT sufficient for those of us who keep boats on
>> moorings
>> instead of in slips with shore power. I have a Balmer alternator and
>> regulator, but I want to be able to go for a day sail, run the
>> fridge,
>> autopilot, instruments, etc., and NOT have to run the engine for an
>> hour or
>> more afterwards to recharge the batteries.
>>
>> My attempts to get good advice on how to set up a solar solution
>> seem to
>> always devolve into a discussion about how to live aboard
>> completely off the
>> grid without running the engine. That requires big solar panels,
>> regulators
>> to go with them, and maybe an arch to hold the panels. All I want
>> is to have
>> my batteries fully charged when I get back to the boat after it has
>> been
>> sitting on the mooring for two weeks unattended. Surely there is a
>> way.
>>
>> Jeff Hare wrote:
>>
>>> I suspect if you remove the internal regulator from the stock
>>> hitachi, and
>>> hook up the Balmar regulator, you'll fry the hitachi the first
>>> time you fire
>>> the engine after being on a mooring for a few days.
>>> I doubt the windings could handle sustained 80amp current.
>>> Balmar is a pretty common high amp replacement as is the PowerMax
>>> 125 from
>>> Ferris Power systems. I have an Amptech 125 and I've seen it
>>> running at
>>> 105A for better than 10 minutes recharging my 4D AGMs. I really
>>> like the
>>> Balmar regulator and would do that one were I doing that again. I
>>> would
>>> still get the Amptech/PowerMax alternator. Its a really solid
>>> performer as
>>> long as you use good fan belts.
>>> -Jeff
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Swanson <kswanson123 at comcast.net>
>>> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:33:45 To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> I believe Hitachi for stock alternators, that is what mine is and
>>> Balmar
>>> for aftermarket high output alternators (this is what I may
>>> install after I
>>> try installing a Balmar 3-stage charge regulator with my stock
>>> Hitachi 60A
>>> alternator.
>>>
>>> Dave Swanson
>>> S/V Emily Ann 2007 C320 MK II, No. 1107
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 17, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Sam Weston wrote:
>>>
>>> What size and brand of alternator is most common ? Mariah 585
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:17 PM
>>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
>>>>
>>>> Pat, if you are more than a week-end cruiser consider upgrading
>>>> to a
>>>>> high
>>>>> output alternator and external regulator. With good batteries,
>>>>> battery
>>>>> monitor, and hi o/p alt. I can go 2 days without charging. When
>>>>> I do
>>>>> charge,
>>>>> it's much faster with the Hi o/p alt. I also have a separate
>>>>> starting
>>>>> battery so starting doesn't rely on the house batteries. Oh, and
>>>>> paralleling
>>>>> the two 4Ds means more total amp hours and more life for the bank.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are solutions on the C320 web site. If you want my project
>>>>> article
>>>>> that ran in the Mainsheet, e-mail me off-list and I'll send it
>>>>> to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>>>>> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Pat Kenefick [mailto:pkenefick at embarqmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:50 AM
>>>>> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>> Subject: [C320-list] New Topic - Solar Panels
>>>>>
>>>>> I am beginning to research the use of solar panels so that I can
>>>>> avoid
>>>>> having to start the engine every day when I am on the hook or
>>>>> moored. I
>>>>> would like to know from those who have installed panels what
>>>>> size in
>>>>> terms
>>>>> of wattage did you install and is there a specific brand that is
>>>>> recommended
>>>>>
>>>>> ? I have the Catalina standard refrigeration, TV, radio system,
>>>>> fans
>>>>> etc..
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> Pat Kenefick
>>>>> Cynthia Gale
>>>>> Bath , NC
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <
>>>>> c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
>>>>> To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: C320-list Digest, Vol 865, Issue 2
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>> http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>> c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>> c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Re: Battery boxes (Warren Updike)
>>>>>> 2. Re: Bird Problem (Joseph Aberdale)
>>>>>> 3. Re: Battery boxes (djgleason1 at juno.com)
>>>>>> 4. Equalization (Paul Rickman)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:29:21 -0400
>>>>>> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>> Message-ID: <BAY156-ds5DD1CA89C62750CCB4F89BE9A0 at phx.gbl>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization
>>>>>> are not
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at
>>>>>> high
>>>>>> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended
>>>>>> to force
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the
>>>>>> cells
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> gas
>>>>>> excessively. Conditioning can be done over a long period of time
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> monitoring. Equalization is a process that must be carefully
>>>>>> monitored
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> avoid damaging the cells.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> comments on either process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't
>>>>>> have an
>>>>>> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a
>>>>>> controversial
>>>>>> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future
>>>>>> product
>>>>>> versions. I have never performed an equalization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>>>>>> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
>>>>>> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would
>>>>>> normally
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be
>>>>>> taken
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> using this mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have lifeline 4Ds. They're great in my situation because of
>>>>>> the long
>>>>>> winter layup we have. I can disconnect them and ignore them
>>>>>> all winter
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they're still fully charged after 6 mos. Standard Flooded
>>>>>> batteries
>>>>>> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What charger do you have? The mfgr could clear up the
>>>>>> equalization
>>>>>> mode
>>>>>> question for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>>>>>> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
>>>>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great info Bill! Thanks. It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs
>>>>>> are the
>>>>>> way
>>>>>> to go. My charging system is the three stage type so I will
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage. I
>>>>>> hear
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of the
>>>>>> recharge
>>>>>> process. It looks like a little more research is in order on
>>>>>> my part?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John #329
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>>>>> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John,
>>>>>> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid batteries.
>>>>>> For
>>>>>> AGMs I
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> that Lifeline's are the Rolls-Royce. I replaced my original
>>>>>> Exide
>>>>>> Gold's
>>>>>> with 2
>>>>>> LifeLine 4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> Exide's.
>>>>>> The Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of
>>>>>> years and
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> sold on
>>>>>> the advantages of AGMs. Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had
>>>>>> lots of
>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
>>>>>> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -bill
>>>>>> Harmony #859
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Larry: Thanks for the info. My boat is paid for so this
>>>>>> isn't an
>>>>>> insurance issue. I was just curious. I like doing things
>>>>>> correctly
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> couldn't understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right
>>>>>> thing"
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> came to battery boxes. Apparently Catalina is doing the right
>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> wealth of information that has been sent. Whatever they are
>>>>>> paying
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> guys, it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> isn't enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry, you mentioned two other types of batteries; AGMs and
>>>>>> Gells. I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> under the understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls
>>>>>> Royce
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> batteries? For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as the
>>>>>> 4D? The
>>>>>> 4Ds I
>>>>>> am about to replace have been in service for over 10 years and
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> beginning to have issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a
>>>>>> battery box
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that there has been some acid leakage down the battery and
>>>>>> onto the
>>>>>> fiberglass. The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds
>>>>>> strong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John # 329
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:41:57 -0400
>>>>>> From: Joseph Aberdale <summerwind3 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bird Problem
>>>>>> Message-ID: <FB79DFA6-F01D-4498-8378-C4CE60CDEE07 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>>>>>> format=flowed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do they use monofilament and how do they mount it to the mast
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> shroud? I have an in mast furling mainsail so I would be
>>>>>> reluctant
>>>>>> to put screws into the mast. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:15 PM, David J Cardoza wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure where you're from but almost everyone where we keep our
>>>>>>> boat on
>>>>>>> Buzzards Bay on Cape Cod has trip lines wired across about 3
>>>>>>> to 5
>>>>>>> inches
>>>>>>> above our spreaders. It's very effective.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> MICHAEL
>>>>>>> COLE
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 12:17 AM
>>>>>>> To: Catalina320
>>>>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Bird Problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe I don't know whether your gulls are more agressive than the
>>>>>>> ones we
>>>>>>> have in Sydney but I bought a plastic owl and slung it up on the
>>>>>>> spinnaker topping lift so that it hangs midway between the
>>>>>>> mast and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> pulpit--it seems to work OK. There is another 320 moored out a
>>>>>>> couple of
>>>>>>> hundred yards away with the same type of owl sitting on
>>>>>>> pushpit rail
>>>>>>> together with old CDs strung on lines from bow to stern
>>>>>>> Mike Cole #421 Mio Dio
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:45:45 -0400
>>>>>> From: djgleason1 at juno.com
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Cc: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>> Message-ID: <20100815.104645.48.229285 at mailpop06.dca.untd.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In response to your question regarding the breaker panel on the
>>>>>> port
>>>>>> side
>>>>>> is: The original placement of the 4 D batteries was one on
>>>>>> the port
>>>>>> side just forward of the nav table. The other was placed on the
>>>>>> starboard side. On hull #150, the previous owner moved the port
>>>>>> battery
>>>>>> to the starboard side. I do not know when Catalina made the
>>>>>> change to
>>>>>> both on the starboard side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Gleason, #150
>>>>>> Proud Mary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:01:40 -0400 Robert Seastream
>>>>>> <robert.seastream at comcast.net> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This raises another question. Why did Catalina put the
>>>>>>> breaker panel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to port (at least on my model), rather than starboard where the
>>>>>>> batteries are?
>>>>>>> I'd think placing the breaker panel to starboard would have
>>>>>>> reduced
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> some cable runs and their inherent voltage drop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Seastream
>>>>>>> Intuition # 906
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can't say whose right. *I* believe Catalina however. With
>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>> over 1000 hulls built and shipped all over the world this way,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a non-issue for the intended use of the boat in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that the batteries are in a well protected area and
>>>>>>>> securely
>>>>>>>> held down, sit in a spill tray, there's little to be gained
>>>>>>>> by a
>>>>>>>> battery box. One wouldn't fit anyway without downsizing the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> batteries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The real danger of flooded batteries I've heard is the chance
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> seawater contacting battery acid. A box won't likely solve that
>>>>>>>> since they MUST be we'll vented.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If using the boat for serious offshore use you'd use AGMs
>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> maximum safety.
>>>>>>>> Just keep the 4Ds we'll secured and enjoy the boat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>>>>>>>> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:58:15
>>>>>>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In April I bought a beautiful Catalina 320. During the survey,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> surveyor noted that the Catalina's three batteries were not in
>>>>>>>> battery boxes. The
>>>>>>>> broker said that Catalina has a waiver for the 320 and the
>>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> without battery boxes from the factory. The surveyor had never
>>>>>>>> heard this and
>>>>>>>> didn't believe it. The surveyor believed that the Coast Guard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>> serious problem with a boat that had its batteries that were
>>>>>>>> not in
>>>>>>>> battery
>>>>>>>> boxes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, who's correct?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Due to the age of the batteries, it is time for me to replace
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>> batteries and this would be a great time to place the
>>>>>>>> batteries in
>>>>>>>> boxes if it
>>>>>>>> is truly required by the Coast Guard. Just for the sake of
>>>>>>>> safety,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>> I should place the batteries in boxes but I am curious as to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> broker's
>>>>>>>> veracity on this subject.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anyone out there who can state categorically and
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> doubt
>>>>>>>> who is correct, the surveyor or the broker?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the Battery boxes are truly required, It appears I will be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> challenged due to the space available to me. The group 27,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> battery is
>>>>>>>> up in the front of the starboard settee and just behind it is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> first of
>>>>>>>> two Rolls, 4Ds. The second 4D is in the compartment just
>>>>>>>> behind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> two batteries. I think the problem is going to be getting the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 27
>>>>>>>> battery in a box due to its location at the front of the
>>>>>>>> settee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, how do the rest of you 320 battery box people do it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for any input you care to share.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John. #329
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Project Management Cert
>>>>>> Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> $100K
>>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c68281da6e846e5ea1st05duc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 11:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>> From: Paul Rickman <ilove2sail at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Equalization
>>>>>> Message-ID: <910593.70958.qm at web84306.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is one opion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://shop.pkys.com/battery-equalization.aspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are others that can be searched out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Xantrex True Charge 20 has an equalizer but
>>>>>> it must be manually turned on. It can be turned off
>>>>>> by simply cutting the power to the unit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> Affinity 657
>>>>>> Bay Bridge Marina
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 4:29:21 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff, my understanding is that conditioning and equalization
>>>>>> are not
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same thing. Conditioning consists of imparting a low voltage at
>>>>>> high
>>>>>> frequency, while equalization imparts a high voltage intended
>>>>>> to force
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> cells to move to a common high voltage. Equalization causes the
>>>>>> cells
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> gas
>>>>>> excessively.? Conditioning can be done over a long period of time
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> monitoring.? Equalization is a process that must be carefully
>>>>>> monitored
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> avoid damaging the cells.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a lot more to be said about both and I am curious for
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> comments on either process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I bought a new external regulator, Balmar ARS-5, it didn't
>>>>>> have an
>>>>>> equalization option. Balmar told me that equalization is a
>>>>>> controversial
>>>>>> issue and that Balmar was thinking of dropping it from future
>>>>>> product
>>>>>> versions.? I have never performed an equalization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>>>>>> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr de Mar"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:45 AM
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is unlikely that a charger would switch to the conditioning
>>>>>> (equalization?) Mode on its own. This is something you would
>>>>>> normally
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to do intentionally since there are precautions that need to be
>>>>>> taken
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> using this mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have lifeline 4Ds.? They're great in my situation because of
>>>>>> the long
>>>>>> winter layup we have.? I can disconnect them and ignore them
>>>>>> all winter
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they're still fully charged after 6 mos.? Standard Flooded
>>>>>> batteries
>>>>>> wouldn't survive this without periodic charging or a solar panel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What charger do you have?? The mfgr could clear up the
>>>>>> equalization
>>>>>> mode
>>>>>> question for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: LOCALJG at aol.com
>>>>>> Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:48:34
>>>>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great info Bill!? Thanks.? It sounds like the Lifeline 4D AGMs?
>>>>>> are the
>>>>>> way
>>>>>> to go.? My charging system is the three stage type so I? will
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> figure out a way how to get rid of the conditioning stage.? I?
>>>>>> hear
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> fry an AGM if it goes through the conditioning stage of? the
>>>>>> recharge
>>>>>> process.? It looks like a little more research is in? order on my
>>>>>> part??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John? #329
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:58:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,?
>>>>>> billculb_a2 at yahoo.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John,
>>>>>> Rolls are pretty much the Rolls-Royce of lead-acid? batteries.?
>>>>>> For
>>>>>> AGMs I
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> that Lifeline's are the? Rolls-Royce.? I replaced my original
>>>>>> Exide
>>>>>> Gold's
>>>>>> with 2
>>>>>> LifeLine? 4D's 2 years ago after getting a whopping 7 years out
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> Exide's.
>>>>>> The? Lifeline's are expensive but projected to give lots of
>>>>>> years and
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> sold on?
>>>>>> the advantages of AGMs.? Also they are rated @ 210Ah and I had
>>>>>> lots? of
>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>> finding any 4Ds over 180Ah.
>>>>>> http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -bill
>>>>>> Harmony? #859
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From:? "LOCALJG at aol.com" <LOCALJG at aol.com>
>>>>>> To:? C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>> Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 3:30:03 PM
>>>>>> Subject:? Re: [C320-list] Battery boxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Larry:? Thanks for the? info.? My boat is paid for so this
>>>>>> isn't an
>>>>>> insurance issue.? I? was just curious.? I like doing things
>>>>>> correctly
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> couldn't? understand why Catalina would not be doing "the right
>>>>>> thing"
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> came? to battery boxes.? Apparently Catalina is doing the right
>>>>>> thing.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which reminds me; thank you to all the people who provided me
>>>>>> with the?
>>>>>> wealth of information that has been sent.? Whatever they are
>>>>>> paying?
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> guys, it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> isn't enough.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry, you mentioned two? other types of batteries; AGMs and
>>>>>> Gells.? I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> under the? understanding that the Rolls 4D was, well, the Rolls
>>>>>> Royce
>>>>>> of?
>>>>>> batteries?? For a cruising C320, do you believe another battery
>>>>>> would?
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> requisite energy and still provide such a long life as? the
>>>>>> 4D?? The
>>>>>> 4Ds I
>>>>>> am about to replace have been in service for over? 10 years and
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> beginning to have issues.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One? thing I can say about not having a battery sealed in a
>>>>>> battery box
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that? there has been some acid leakage down the battery and
>>>>>> onto the?
>>>>>> fiberglass.? The fiberglass has been discolored but still holds?
>>>>>> strong.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone else have this acid on fiberglass? issue??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John #? 329
>>>>>>
>>>>>> End of CMz==
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> --
>> Scott Thompson
>> Surprise, #653
>>
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