[C320-list] Main Cleat upgrade?

[Denny Browne]

The accidental jibe never occurred to me, and the resulting shock load would
likely damage even the aluminum offshore cleat if the wind was significant.
Not even sure how to calculate that, but I'm sure an engineer could. That's
why working loads are usually 15 to 20% of breaking strength. When an
accidental jibe is a risk, we usually keep a couple of wraps on the winch
and the sheet in hand, rather than cleated, so it can ease a little to
absorb the shock of an unexpected jibe. That risk makes an excellent case
for keeping the mainsheet on the winch, unless the winch is needed for a
halyard. Thanks for pointing that out.

DENNY BROWNE
A Cappella #935
Redondo Beach

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Larry Frank
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 5:05 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Main Cleat upgrade?

I have a couple of further considerations on this issues that haven't been
brought up.

I originally reeved my mainsheet through a rope clutch only to undo the
change rather quickly.  I sometimes sail single handed and found that if the
boat rounded up and I needed to dump the main to regain control this was
impossible to do from the helm.  The one good thing about the clam cleat is
that you can flip the mainsheet out of it from the helm in such a situation.
I also have extra long traveler control lines now so I can adjust the
traveler from the helm.  Anyone who sails single handed needs to be able to
adjust the main from the helm and should keep this in mind when making
changes.

The second thought has to do with the loads placed on the mainsheet.
Remember the highest and most dangerous load will occur during an accidental
jibe.  The gear used to hold the mainsheet must be able to stand up to this
sudden impact.  The ridges on the clam cleat pull the line down and hold it
more securely when the load increases.  We only use the clam when we have to
take the mainsheet off the winch to use the winch for some other task and
then put the mainsheet back on the winch so it will be available to adjust
mainsail trim.

I am not saying a cam cleat is a bad thing, in fact it might work very well
if sized and mounted properly.

Larry 
WindSwept Catalina 320 #246 

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Pat Ireland
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:58 PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Main Cleat upgrade?

Dennie

Certainly understand your issue with winching against a CAM, but it's not a
concer since our main is rigged single ended.  The Harken 280 has a safe
working load of 500#s.  That's what I bought for this project, but I'm
beginning to question the concept.

Your dual approach - one light and one heavy air - may be the solution.
Abit more research is definitely required here.

Thank you for your help

Pat, 801

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:03 AM, Denny Browne
<dennybrowne at verizon.net>wrote:

> Garhauer is a great manufacturer, aren't they?
>
> Re the cam cleat: I thought it was a Ronstan, because that's what Garhauer
> uses, but I actually used the Harken 280 cleat. This is Harken's highest
> load rated offshore cam cleat. I can't find the load rating, though, and
my
> browser isn't working for some reason. It's certainly less than the 6,000
> pound breaking strength on the line though. With the mainsheet system on
> our
> boats, I don't believe you can pull the main in hard enough without the
> winch. Not enough purchase and awkward angle. Despite the size of the
> cleat,
> I was uncomfortable winching one end and leaving the other in a cam cleat.
>
> I had a rigger through bolt mine. He backed the bolts with a modest
washer,
> a lock washer, a nut and a cap nut. Be sure to squirt some silicone
sealant
> into the hole and it won't leak.
>
> DENNY BROWNE
> A Cappella #935
> Redondo Beach
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Chris Burti
>  Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:51 PM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Main Cleat upgrade?
>
> Which catalogue? I just changed out my main halyard clutch and would like
> to
> complete the work in that area. FYI Garhauer replaced the clutch without
> charge as it failed within the 10 year warranty period. Kudos to Garhauer
> customer service.
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Pat Ireland <cherie320 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Chris
> >
> > My catalog shows an angled spacer that looks like it might fit.
>  Certainly
> > would improve the access.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Pat, 801
> >
> > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Initially, when the line is new, it will usually pull itself in, after
> > time
> > > as the line stiffens, it is not as effective. I think that adding a
> > tapered
> > > spacer that would raise the cleat and angle the aft side upward would
> > > improve the lead of the line and the effectiveness of the cleat.
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Pat Ireland <cherie320 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the line size suggestion.  It's a subtle solution, that I
> > had
> > > > not
> > > > considered.  Does the smaller line still require pushing down or
does
> > > > the JAM cleat pull it down as you release tension?
> > > >
> > > > Dennie
> > > > I like the cabin top concept, but was trying to locate the CAM on
the
> > > > original threaded plate so a through bolt install would not be
> > required.
> > > >  Do
> > > > you know what the load rating is for the Ronstat CAM?  Or the
> > difference
> > > in
> > > > main sheet load going from down wind to hard on the wind?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you both for your information.  I appreciate the help.
> > > >
> > > > Pat, 801
> > > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Denny Browne <
> > dennybrowne at verizon.net
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > We have the double ended mainsheet on Hull #935, which I find to
be
> > > much
> > > > > better than the single ended sheet on my previous boat, Hull #244.
> > The
> > > > main
> > > > > can be sheeted from the windward side on either tack.
> > > > >
> > > > > I installed a cam cleat at the rear edge of the cabintop on each
> > side,
> > > > that
> > > > > works great when off the wind and when putting the boat away for
> the
> > > > night.
> > > > > Although it's the biggest cam cleat Ronstan makes, I still don't
> > > believe
> > > > > it's stout enough to handle the load when sailing upwind, so I
> return
> > > > both
> > > > > ends to the cabintop winches when heading up. The jam cleat works
> > fine
> > > on
> > > > > either side if I need to use the cabintop winch for the spin
> halyard.
> > I
> > > > > have
> > > > > downsized to 10mm Spect-set II (no longer available, but any 3/8"
> > > spectra
> > > > > core line would be fine for the main).
> > > > >
> > > > > DENNY BROWNE
> > > > > A Cappella #935
> > > > > Redondo Beach
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> > > > > [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
> Chris
> > > > Burti
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:41 AM
> > > > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > > >  Subject: Re: [C320-list] Main Cleat upgrade?
> > > > >
> > > > > Consider replacing the main sheet first...and also consider going
> > down
> > > > 1/16
> > > > > in size. Dacron DB tends to get fatter and stiffer with exposure.
a
> > new
> > > > > line
> > > > > will fit and hold in the jam cleat better and a smaller one will
> fit
> > > > > longer.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Pat Ireland <cherie320 at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > All
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has anyone worked out an alternative configuration for cleating
> the
> > > > main
> > > > > > sheet on the cabin top?  I've read the threads with comments
that
> > > > support
> > > > > > continued use of the OEM JAM cleat, but after several outings we
> > are
> > > > > still
> > > > > > not satisfied with that method.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to install a CAM in close proximity to the traveler
> > CAM,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the clearance and lead is a challenge.   If you have developed
an
> > > > > approach
> > > > > > that works, where did you locate it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alternatively, does a line stopper function correctly or is
there
> a
> > > > > > tendency
> > > > > > for the sheet to jam on an emergency release?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Appreciate your input and experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pat, 801
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Chris Burti Farmville, NC
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Burti Farmville, NC
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Burti Farmville, NC
>
>
>