[C320-list] Replacement sails and other upgrades

[Welch, Myron D]

Jeff,

My experience was just the opposite. After talking to the Dutchman representative at Strictly Sail – Chicago several years ago, he suggested that since I have zippers for the Dutchman line
in the sail cover, I should be using the single line. I replaced the clothesline mechanism with a small, coated stainless steel line. After raising the saiI I slack it off about 6 inches. When lowering the sail, I loosen the vang and mainsheet, retighten the topping lift, retighten the vang and mainsheet, and flake the sail. It works fine for me and perhaps it is because I do not have to drop the lines each time.

Although several have removed their Dutchman system or installed lazy jacks, I like the Dutchman, particularly with this single line set up. What works best for my cruising style on the Great Lakes may not work well for someone else.

Myron Welch
Wind Instrument, #238
Iowa City, Iowa
Grace Memorial Harbor
Elk Rapids, Michigan 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 17, 2012, at 8:21 PM, "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com> wrote:

> For what it's worth,  one year I needed to replace the continuous "clothes line" rope for the Dutchman since it had a few knuckles where the core popped out that kept getting jammed.
> 
> I tried rigging the Fixed single line Dutchman arrangement.  It didn't work nearly as well as the adjustable version we have.  
> * Easing the topping lift didn't really work as well as you might expect.  There were all sorts of things that affected the operation, like how tight your boom vang was.  
> * The topping lift really torqued the sail shape much more until I got it perfectly adjusted which took hours of raising/lowering the sails to test.  Remember that when you tighten the topping lift the blocks move towards the mast head, so it's a compromise between having them torque the sail when it's bagged out and not allowing them to line up well when dropping the sail.
> * Also getting (and keeping) the dutchman lines both tight seemed much harder for some reason.  In the end, the sail didn't drop nearly as well and in order to get the Dutchman lines to loop nicely under the sail cover, you had to ease the topping lift.  This allowed the topping lift to swing around in the wind and wears on the sail cover.  
> 
> Hated it.  Went back to the clothes line version with new lines.. All smiles again...
> 
> Your mileage may vary.
> -Jeff Hare
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Heyman
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 11:46 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Replacement sails and other upgrades
> 
> Irv,
> Thanks!  That makes total sense.  With the blocks it always seems like I'm making too many adjustments.
> Bruce
> 
> Bruce Heyman
> 949 289-8400
> 
> Irving Grunes <igrunes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The fixed "pennant" I really meant the Dutchman "A" systen where the 
>> dutchman line positions are fixed and it attaches to the topping lift.
>> The topping lift  is tightened when ready to drop the sail and loosened 
>> about 6 inches when sailing.with the loose foot on the sail We have not 
>> cut slits in our sail cover yet and so we lower the topping lift so 
>> that the sail cover can go on with the Dutchman lines eased under the 
>> sail cover.
>> Sorry for the misleading remark
>> Irv Grunes
>> 2001 #851
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 11:16 PM, Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Irv,
>>> With a fixed pennant how do you use it as a topping lift?  Or lower 
>>> it to replace the dutchman lines?
>>> Bruce
>>> Somerset
>>> 
>>> Bruce Heyman
>>> 949 289-8400
>>> 
>>> Irving Grunes <igrunes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Alan,
>>>> We had a new sail by UK Halsey in Annapolis His recommendation was 
>>>> to use a three line Dutchman and use a fixed Dutchman pennant rather 
>>>> than the the pulley system.
>>>> I can assure you that it is a pleasure because it really controls 
>>>> the sail extremely well when dropping it.
>>>> 
>>>> And he used just slits in the sail reinforced with webbing for the
>>> Dutchman
>>>> holes in the sail instead of the plastic discs.
>>>> And we bought a full batten and loose foot as well.
>>>> He also recommended the plastic sail track but since our boat is in 
>>>> a partnership, we did not go for the extra $1000. the track would 
>>>> cost, but it sure works well where we have seen it.
>>>> Irv Grunes
>>>> 2001 #851
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Alan Goodman 
>>>> <goodmanalanlee at hotmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Irv - now that you mention it (it never crossed my mind) on would 
>>>>> think
>>> a
>>>>> three line Dutchman would handle the sail better when flaking.  I 
>>>>> have
>>> seen
>>>>> three lines on C42s but does anyone actually have three lines on a C320?
>>>>> Would that raise the price to $750 for installing the plastic disks ...
>>>>> ouch.    Alan Hull 67 Holland MI
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:02:09 -0500
>>>>>> From: Irving Grunes <igrunes at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Replacement sails and other upgrades
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>      <CAE+H+CJ5spsUf5uQMvdy1CPva=
>>>>> CXAOQgO_6pk8O0aO1WorjzmQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> If going new, I suggest 3 line Dutchman and loose footed main.
>>>>>> Irv Grunes
>>>>>> #851
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Alan Goodman <
>>>>> goodmanalanlee at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have the original sails (hull 67 1994) and while I 
>>>>>>> considered
>>> moving
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a bigger boat (C400), I decided to keep the C320.  So now I am
>>> going to
>>>>>>> have to make the expense (is anything spent on a boat ever an
>>>>> investment?)
>>>>>>> for several upgrades.  I would appreciate your feedback as to 
>>>>>>> how to
>>>>> go and
>>>>>>> what you may have paid for a similar upgrade.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I almost pulled the trigger earlier this month while Catalina 
>>>>>>> Direct
>>>>> had a
>>>>>>> 15% off discount on sails, but with only a day left before the 
>>>>>>> sale
>>>>> expired
>>>>>>> I felt rushed and did not order them.  CD sells Ullman sails 
>>>>>>> from a
>>>>> Ventura
>>>>>>> CA loft.  I am a Great Lakes cruiser (similar to coastal ocean
>>>>> conditions),
>>>>>>> so I am interested in Dacron, about 7.0 oz.  I currently have 
>>>>>>> full
>>>>> battens
>>>>>>> and a bolt rope foot.  I also have the Dutchman flaking 
>>>>>>> system, and
>>> CD
>>>>>>> wanted $500 extra to install the plastic disks/grommets in the sail.
>>>>> That
>>>>>>> seemed a bit excessive to me.  Most likely I will be moving to 
>>>>>>> a
>>> bigger
>>>>>>> boat in about 4 years (full retirement afloat), if that 
>>>>>>> affects your recommendations.  Do any of the racers on the 
>>>>>>> forum have gently used
>>>>> Dacron
>>>>>>> sails they might wish to part with?  Does anyone single hand a 
>>>>>>> slab
>>>>> flaked
>>>>>>> main without a Dutchman or Lazy jacks?   The head sail seems to me
>>> to
>>>>> be an
>>>>>>> easier choice (less decisions).  Same fabric weight as the 
>>>>>>> main,
>>> foam
>>>>> luff,
>>>>>>> leach and foot cords, etc.  I am looking for thoughts based 
>>>>>>> upon
>>> value
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> i.e. price to performance.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I also am going to have new interior cushions made for the salon.
>>> Any
>>>>>>> recommendations as to foam density, foam thickness, other 
>>>>>>> issues I
>>> may
>>>>> not
>>>>>>> be thinking about?  My OEM settee and dinette cushions extend 
>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> leading edge (i.e. overhang) of the fiberglass bench structure 
>>>>>>> but
>>> do
>>>>> not
>>>>>>> provide any support.  The edge of these cushions simply roll 
>>>>>>> down
>>>>> behind my
>>>>>>> calves and are uncomfortable.  Anyone have new cushions made 
>>>>>>> that
>>> are
>>>>> flush
>>>>>>> with the leading edge of the fiberglass bench structure?  Any
>>> thoughts
>>>>>>> about why it might be a good or bad idea?  Also, anyone have 
>>>>>>> any
>>> price
>>>>>>> information as to what I should expect to pay (I'll be taking 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>> existing
>>>>>>> cushions around for quotes right after the new year).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lastly, I bought a tufted topper for the aft berth cushions 
>>>>>>> but
>>> still
>>>>>>> don't find the sleeping conditions comfortable.  So I will
>>> definitely
>>>>> be
>>>>>>> purchasing a mattress.  Options are foam or coil spring (I 
>>>>>>> also
>>> tried a
>>>>>>> Coleman air mattress, but it felt way too cold in the early 
>>>>>>> spring
>>> and
>>>>> late
>>>>>>> fall).  Again, any advice thoughts appreciated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That probably exhausts my boat budget for the upcoming year  ...
>>> air
>>>>>>> conditioning and a below deck autopilot are in my dreams.
>