[C320-list] Water lift Muffler
danny jensen
danny at jensenshouse.com
Mon May 6 23:42:48 PDT 2013
After you patch up your muffler, you should consider replacing your patched muffler with a new muffler from Catalina for $374.00 and do the mixing elbow while you are at it. You were lucky you were not taking a taking a trip when the muffler blew. I like the idea of using the mat between the muffler and the hull. I have installed a hump hose and it does seem to reduce the vibration. I believe it is a good idea to read the accounts of boats that floated floorboards and had soot all over their boat when their muffler failed. I have read these accounts and I would rather play it safe replacing muffler with a new muffler.
Here are the details of my mixing elbow / aqua lift muffler replacement project.
I have about 500 hours on a 2004 C320 with a Yanmar 3GM30F-YEU. The mechanic recommended I change the mixing elbow in the next 12 months. The U Mixing Elbow inside was corroded at the point where the raw cool raw water mixes with exhaust. The riser appeared to be in good shape but the two parts looked to be bonded together and my mechanic told me to replace the entire assembly Elbow, riser and join. I read several owners accounts of failed mixing elbows and mufflers / muffler repairs. The lead time to get a muffler from Catalina was estimated to be 2 months. The general consensus was to replace the muffler after about 10 years. Mufflers seem to fail mostly near the screw holes in the corners. Some owners think this is due to vibration from the engine exhaust hose. I used Jeff Hares rule and decided to replace the muffler on my schedule instead of the boats schedule especially because of the 2 month lead time for the muffler. The cost of the muffler from Catalina was $374.
I contacted Ken Roy at Catalina and gave him my hull number and some pictures and dimensions of my existing muffler (it is for sale now). Ken asked for some more dimensions. Ken sent me back a picture of the muffler he proposed to make for me and requested payment. It took about 2 months total to get the muffler.
I ordered the gasket, mixing elbow, SS joint and riser exhaust from Bayshore Marine(see below). Next, I considered the muffler vibration issue. Some owners felt that a hump hose would isolate the vibration from the engine to the muffler. The existing wet exhaust hose connecting mixing elbow to muffler input was a 22 inch 2 in. id. I decided replace with 2 hose segments of more flexible trident corrugated exhaust hose joined together with an exhaust hump hose I purchased from Catalina Direct.
Here are the details. The procedure took about 3.5 hours including driving home once.
1. I turned off the raw water thru hull, disconnected the 3/8 hose connection at the elbow, the 4 riser exhaust bolts came off with no problem. Then I disconnected the elbow from the 2 in. exhaust hose. I used a radiator hose pick to remove the hoses. They came right off with no problem. Don't sweat removing the hoses.
2. I took the old elbow assembly home where I used it for reference to create the new assembly using a vise. I don't believe you can create the new assembly without the help of a vise and 2 large adjustable 15 in wrenches. Don't try to make the new assembly on your boat! You will need to twist the 3/8 in input 180 degrees then you will need to create the exact same angle as the old elbow by threading the joint into the elbow and exhaust riser. I used high temperature anti seize on the joint threads before assembly.
3. I used a gasket scraper to easily remove the old gasket. Then I applied some high temp gasket seating material to both sides of the new gasket and bolted the elbow assembly to the motor.
4. I removed the 4 stainless screws securing the muffler to the boat and I removed the output exhaust hose from the old muffler using the radiator hose pick. The hoses come off the muffler without any problem. The muffler comes out of the boat without any problem.
5. I put the new muffler in place and connected the output exhaust hose without any issues. I found the screw holes on the new muffler did not match the screw holes on the muffler. I could get the 2 screw holes forward to line up but then the aft screw holes with not align with the existing holes. Access to the forward inboard screw is somewhat limited so you will want to match the forward inboard screw with the existing hole then use a drill motor to self tap new holes with the muffler in place. The existing self tapping screws were in good shape and I did not need to drill pilot holes, I just drove the screws into the glass with the muffler in place after I screwed down the forward screws. Apply a good amount of silicon grease to the muffler drain.
6. I used a sawzall to cut an 8 in and 13 in segment of corrugated exhaust hose then I joined them with a hump hose using double hose clamps on each side of the hump hose. Then I connected the hose to the mixing elbow and the input side of the muffler.
7. I turned on the thru hull and ran the engine. White fiberglass chips from the new muffler were spitting out the exhaust for a while. No leaks. The hump hose appeared to do the job limiting vibration. I left the rear engine cover off and took the boat out in open water and ran the motor up 3000 RPM. I went below and to my surprise I saw smoke coming from the exhaust riser side of the stainless steel joint nut! No water. It appeared that the joint was oozing and burning anti-seize. After about 10 minutes this smoking stopped. I'm assuming this is normal but it spooked me. I'm going to put a co2 monitor in the aft cabin to make sure I don't have gas leaks.
Parts:
bayshore marine:
128370-13201 gasket $4.92
124070-13520 U mixing elbow $169.33
128370-13610 riser exhaust $130.39
104214-13580 joint $28.79
Note:
27233-250000 plug comes with 124070-13610
124070-13300 elbow 3/8 comes with 124070-13610
Parts from Catalina Yachts (Ken at catalinayachts.com)
1 Muffler $374 plus Shipping
Parts from Catalina direct:
High Temp Anti-Seize Compound (#Z2858): 1 Item Total: $15.95 Exhaust Hump Hose 1-5/8"I.D X 6" (#Z2152): 1 Item Total: $31.49
Tools Harbor Freight
8" Radiator Hose Pick $3.99
Carbon/Gasket Scraper $2.99
High Temp Gasket seating compound
MMI Marine
TRI252-2004
TRIDENT CORRUGATED FLEX SAE J2006 MARINE WET EXHAUST HOSE (HARD WALL WITH WIRE) - 2 Feet $15.00 BUA70HSS36C
BUCK HOSE CLAMPS S/S FROM 1 13/16" TO 2 3/4" 4 $8.00
Danny Jensen
A BOA VIDA
Hull 972
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Jane & Ken
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 2:10 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
Tony, true, the cooling temp should remain below 200 however the muffler draws water from the lake and mixes it with the engine exhaust which is well above 200 and the resulting mixture can become very hot (it should not, but it can for a multitude of reasons). Better safe than sorry. Ken
--- On Mon, 5/6/13, amshd2 at aol.com <amshd2 at aol.com> wrote:
From: amshd2 at aol.com <amshd2 at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 2:42 PM
I have used JB Weld in the past never thought about using it here but now considering it. Does anyone know for sure how hot the muffler box gets. Does it get up to $212 Deg F.
After I read some of the emails about using JB Weld vs West System I gave West Tec Support a call. They said I should be OK to over 200 deg F if I add Glass and the 404 filler. I was thinking that since my eng operating temp is around `175 I thought I might be OK.
Bruce which JB Weld product did you use ?? I went on line to JB Weld saw lots of differetnt products.
Wonder if I can use JB Weld in the crack and cover with West and Glass.
I would rather go with over kill than have to do this again anytime soon.
Thanks Again
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net>
To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Mon, May 6, 2013 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
Bruce,
Brings up a good point. West System Epoxies will soften with heat even
after well cured. Most parts of the water lift muffler should never get
over 212 Deg F. However, GB Weld is higher temperature and should not
soften with these temperatures.
Bruce Heyman
bruceheyman at cox.net
(949) 289-8400
Somerset #671 Dana Point, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Hunter
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 6:29 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
West System is great stuff, I'm a big fan. However if or when I would make a
repair such as this (water, high temperatures) I'd use JB Weld (big fan of
that too), I only say that because I glued a broken hot tub water impeller
back together thinking "what the heck, it's worth a try", it worked for
years and as far as I know it's still together (We've sinced moved). But
West system good too, just a thought...
Bruce Hunter
Nauti Time #719
From: Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
Tony,
I would recommend that you add milled fibers to the West Systems and clean
the area well with acetone after you are sure it is 100% dry.
Good luck!
Bruce
Bruce Heyman
(949) 289-8400
amshd2 at aol.com wrote:
>
>I would like to thank all that responded the information you shared helped
alot.
>
>Went back to the boat today and traced the leak to the muffler. I pulled
the muffler. It came out much easier than thought. Did not even have to
use my heat gun,
>
>Found a 3 in hair line crack in the seem on the bottom edge. I can hardly
believe water could seep through but I was able to watch water seep out. My
plan is to grind out the loose glass and fill with the West System. Also
plan to fill all the screw holes. If there is something out there that will
work better than the west system please let me know.
>
>I am going to lay down a piece of anti vibration matt that I got from
Soundown, between the muffler and the pan.
>
>Will also see if I can find a hump hose as well.
>
>Hopefully should have things all together by next weekend.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: millers1 <millers1 at aol.com>
>To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 11:54 am
>Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
>
>A lot of good guidance has been offered on the Muffler issue.
>I would add two comments:
>I removed the muffler( easy job). Put some water in it. Using a bicycle
pump
>pressurized
>it to 1 or 2 psi. Water leaked out 2 screw holes and a bottom flange
area. I
>cleaned/ glassed the
>problem areas (re-run the pressure test on the fix).. I had to glass closed
one
>of the screw
>holes and move it closer to the edge. Then
>I installed a "hump hose" in the engine exhaust line to de-stress the load
on
>the muffler.
>good Luck,
>Art #680
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pat reynolds <lorasalum at yahoo.com>
>To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 10:38 am
>Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
>Water in the engine pan could be from a few areas. If it is coming from
the
>muffler it should be easy to spot when the engine is running. On our boat
the
>water did run along the front of the muffler and down into the engine pan.
Most
>
>of the water should end up in the bilge area however. If it is a crack in
either
>
>of the tubes of the muffler you may have some success trying to epoxy the
area.
>If it is from the bottom less success. If you are going to remove the
muffler I
>
>would suggest that you cut the hose running to the intake tube from the
mixing
>elbow so you don't break off the intake tube (from experience) The hose is
>easily replaceable. We had a shop reglass the bottom but it didn't last so
we
>tried ourselves on two occasions before finally calling Catalina for a new
one.
>
>If you are getting a new one be sure to send them the old muffler and not
just
>pictures as they have several different molds with different intake angles.
>(again from
> experience).
>
>All that being said if you can't see water exiting from the muffler the
leak is
>elsewhere. Check all engine hose connections and the hoses. Check the
>connection from the overflow container. Determine if it is water or
>antifreeze. Good luck
>
>
>________________________________
> From: "amshd2 at aol.com" <amshd2 at aol.com>
>To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 10:30 PM
>Subject: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
>
>Went to the boat today and started her up from her long winter nap. I dont
think
>
>she wanted to get up because after I shut her down I found about 2 cups of
water
>
>in the eng catch pan. Looks like it is coming from the muffler.
>
>I know this has been covered here before so I guess its my turn to R/R the
>muffler and explore my options and ask alot of questions should have paid
more
>attention before. What really kills me is how can it just go bad over teh
>winter.
>
>How bad do they leak whne they go bad????
>
>I think one COA is to send mine to Catalina. How long is the turn around
time.
>Do they just fix mine or is it a new unit. Any idea on current cost.
>
>Is there anyone that knows where to go and get it fixed around Annapolis.
>
>And I think I have seen where someone was able to by one for an aftermarket
>supplier.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tony
>#30
>
>
>
>
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