[C320-list] Water lift Muffler

[Irving Grunes]

It doesn't seem that you are running the engine long enough so that it gets
hot to burn out the carbon.
Irv Grunes
2001 #851

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Bruce Hunter <swampcreek42 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Tony,
>         I did the hot tub impeller repair back in the mid 90's so it was
> the original JB Weld. I like the newer fast setting stuff for general
> repairs but for serious repairs such as keeping water in it's proper place
> I trust the slow cure stuff better. Right or wrong I have it in my head
> that slow curing means extra strength.
>
>  After reading Danny's reply I'm a little concerned about my own
> equipment! My boat is a year 2000 with only 299 engine hours so now I'm
> thinking engine hours verses time. I do put my hand on the riser after a
> run and it is always cool so I guess all is well BUT to steal a phrase off
> Niel Young...Rust Never Sleeps! When I ran power boats I gave exhaust
> manifolds and risers 5 to 7 years and simply replaced everything but I
> stacked up some serious hours during that time (One of the many reasons I
> went to sailing) plus here on the Chesapeake things corrode real fast.  If
> I was in your situation I think I would make the repair and carefully
> monitor it and quickly order the new parts that Danny mentioned.
>
> Bruce Hunter
> Nauti Time #719
>
> From: danny jensen <danny at jensenshouse.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
> After you patch up your muffler, you should consider replacing your
> patched muffler with a new muffler from Catalina for $374.00 and do the
> mixing elbow while you are at it. You were lucky you were not taking a
> taking a trip when the muffler blew. I like the idea of using the mat
> between the muffler and the hull. I have installed a hump hose and it does
> seem to reduce the vibration. I believe it is a good idea to read the
> accounts of boats that floated floorboards and had soot all over their boat
> when their muffler failed.  I have read these accounts and I would rather
> play it safe replacing muffler with a new muffler.
>
>
> Here are the details of my mixing elbow / aqua lift muffler replacement
> project.
>
> I have about 500 hours on a 2004 C320 with a Yanmar 3GM30F-YEU. The
> mechanic recommended I change the mixing elbow in the next 12 months.  The
> U Mixing Elbow inside was corroded at the point where the raw cool raw
> water mixes with exhaust. The riser appeared to be in good shape but the
> two parts looked to be bonded together and my mechanic told me to replace
> the entire assembly Elbow, riser and join. I read several owners accounts
> of failed mixing elbows and mufflers / muffler repairs. The lead time to
> get a muffler from Catalina was estimated to be 2 months.  The general
> consensus was to replace the muffler after about 10 years. Mufflers seem to
> fail mostly near the screw holes in the corners. Some owners think this is
> due to vibration from the engine exhaust hose. I used Jeff Hares rule and
> decided to replace the muffler on my schedule instead of the boats schedule
> especially because of  the 2 month lead time for the muffler. The cost of
> the muffler
>  from Catalina was $374.
>
> I contacted Ken Roy at Catalina and gave him my hull number and some
> pictures and dimensions of my existing muffler (it is for sale now). Ken
> asked for some more dimensions. Ken sent me back a picture of the muffler
> he proposed to make for me and requested payment. It took about 2 months
> total to get the muffler.
> I ordered the gasket, mixing elbow, SS joint and riser exhaust from
> Bayshore Marine(see below). Next, I considered the muffler vibration issue.
> Some owners felt that a hump hose would isolate the vibration from the
> engine to the muffler.  The existing wet exhaust hose connecting mixing
> elbow to muffler input was a 22 inch 2 in. id.  I decided replace with 2
> hose segments of more flexible trident corrugated exhaust hose joined
> together with an exhaust hump hose I purchased from Catalina Direct.
>
> Here are the details. The procedure took about 3.5 hours including driving
> home once.
>
> 1.    I turned off the raw water thru hull,  disconnected the 3/8 hose
> connection at the elbow, the 4 riser exhaust bolts came off with no
> problem. Then I disconnected the elbow from the 2 in. exhaust hose. I used
> a radiator hose pick to remove the hoses. They came right off with no
> problem. Don't sweat removing the hoses.
>
> 2.    I took the old elbow assembly home where I used it for reference to
> create the new assembly using a vise. I don't believe you can create the
> new assembly without the help of a vise and 2 large adjustable 15 in
> wrenches. Don't try to make the new assembly on your boat! You will need to
> twist the 3/8 in input 180 degrees then you will need to create the exact
> same angle as the old elbow by threading the joint into the elbow and
> exhaust riser. I used high temperature anti seize on the joint threads
> before assembly.
>
> 3.    I used a gasket scraper to easily remove the old gasket. Then I
> applied some high temp gasket seating material to both sides of the new
> gasket and bolted the elbow assembly to the motor.
>
> 4.    I removed the 4 stainless screws securing the muffler to the boat
> and I removed the output exhaust hose from the old muffler using the
> radiator hose pick. The hoses come off the muffler without any problem.
> The muffler comes out of the boat without any problem.
>
> 5.    I put the new muffler in place and connected the output exhaust hose
> without any issues. I found the screw holes on the new muffler did not
> match the screw holes on the muffler.  I could get the 2 screw holes
> forward to line up but then the aft screw holes with not align with the
> existing holes. Access to the forward inboard screw is somewhat limited so
> you will want to match the forward inboard screw with the existing hole
> then use a drill motor to self tap new holes with the muffler in place. The
> existing self tapping screws were in good shape and I did not need to drill
> pilot holes, I just drove the screws into the glass with the muffler in
> place after I screwed down the forward screws. Apply a good amount of
> silicon grease to the muffler drain.
>
> 6.    I used a sawzall to cut an 8 in and 13 in segment of corrugated
> exhaust hose then I joined them with a hump hose using double hose clamps
> on each side of the hump hose. Then I connected the hose to the mixing
> elbow and the input side of the muffler.
>
> 7.    I turned on the thru hull and ran the engine. White fiberglass chips
> from the new muffler were spitting out the exhaust for a while. No leaks.
> The hump hose appeared to do the job limiting vibration. I left the rear
> engine cover off and took the boat out in open water and ran the motor up
> 3000 RPM. I went below and to my surprise I saw smoke coming from the
> exhaust riser side of the stainless steel joint nut!  No water. It appeared
> that the joint was oozing and burning anti-seize.  After about 10 minutes
> this smoking stopped.  I'm assuming this is normal but it spooked me. I'm
> going to put a co2 monitor in the aft cabin to make sure I don't have gas
> leaks.
>
> Parts:
> bayshore marine:
> 128370-13201 gasket    $4.92
> 124070-13520 U mixing elbow    $169.33
> 128370-13610 riser exhaust    $130.39
> 104214-13580 joint         $28.79
> Note:
> 27233-250000 plug            comes with 124070-13610
> 124070-13300 elbow 3/8    comes with 124070-13610
>
> Parts from Catalina Yachts (Ken at catalinayachts.com)
> 1 Muffler $374 plus Shipping
>
> Parts from Catalina direct:
> High Temp Anti-Seize Compound (#Z2858): 1 Item Total: $15.95 Exhaust Hump
> Hose 1-5/8"I.D X 6" (#Z2152): 1 Item Total: $31.49
>
> Tools Harbor Freight
> 8" Radiator Hose Pick $3.99
> Carbon/Gasket Scraper $2.99
> High Temp Gasket seating compound
>
> MMI Marine
> TRI252-2004
> TRIDENT CORRUGATED FLEX SAE J2006 MARINE WET EXHAUST HOSE (HARD WALL WITH
> WIRE)  - 2 Feet  $15.00 BUA70HSS36C
> BUCK HOSE CLAMPS S/S FROM 1 13/16" TO 2 3/4"    4 $8.00
>
> Danny Jensen
> A BOA VIDA
> Hull 972
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com [mailto:
> c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Jane & Ken
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 2:10 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
> Tony, true, the cooling temp should remain below 200   however the muffler
> draws water from the lake and mixes it with the engine exhaust which is
> well above 200 and the resulting mixture can become very hot (it should
> not, but it can for a multitude of reasons).  Better safe than sorry.   Ken
>
> --- On Mon, 5/6/13, amshd2 at aol.com <amshd2 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: amshd2 at aol.com <amshd2 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 2:42 PM
>
>
> I have used JB Weld in the past never thought about using it here but now
> considering it.  Does anyone know for sure how hot the muffler box gets.
> Does it get up to $212 Deg F.
>
> After I read some of the emails about using JB Weld vs West System I gave
> West Tec Support a call. They said I  should be OK to over 200 deg F if I
> add Glass and the 404 filler.  I was thinking that since my eng operating
> temp is around `175 I thought I might be OK.
>
> Bruce which JB Weld product did you use ??  I went on line to JB Weld saw
> lots of differetnt products.
>
> Wonder if I can use JB Weld in the crack and cover with West and Glass.
>
> I would rather go with over kill than have to do this again anytime soon.
>
> Thanks Again
>
> Tony
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net>
> To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Sent: Mon, May 6, 2013 2:16 pm
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
> Bruce,
> Brings up a good point.  West System Epoxies will soften with heat even
> after well cured.  Most parts of the water lift muffler should never get
> over 212 Deg F.  However, GB Weld is higher temperature and should not
> soften with these temperatures.
>
> Bruce Heyman
> bruceheyman at cox.net
> (949) 289-8400
> Somerset #671 Dana Point, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Hunter
> Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 6:29 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
> West System is great stuff, I'm a big fan. However if or when I would make
> a
> repair such as this (water, high temperatures) I'd use JB Weld (big fan of
> that too), I only say that because I glued a broken hot tub water impeller
> back together thinking "what the heck, it's worth a try", it worked for
> years and as far as I know it's still together (We've sinced moved). But
> West system good too, just a thought...
>
> Bruce Hunter
> Nauti Time #719
>
> From: Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
> Tony,
> I would recommend that you add milled fibers to the West Systems and clean
> the area well with acetone after you are sure it is 100% dry.
> Good luck!
> Bruce
>
> Bruce Heyman
> (949) 289-8400
>
> amshd2 at aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> >I would like to thank all that responded the information you shared helped
> alot.
> >
> >Went back to the boat today and traced the leak to the muffler.  I pulled
> the muffler. It came out much easier than  thought.  Did not even have to
> use my heat gun,
> >
> >Found a 3 in hair line crack in the seem on the bottom edge. I can hardly
> believe water could seep through but I was able to watch water seep out.
> My
> plan is to grind out the loose glass and fill with the West System.  Also
> plan to fill all the screw holes. If there is something out there that will
> work better than the west system please let me know.
> >
> >I am going to lay down a piece of anti vibration matt that I got from
> Soundown,  between the muffler and the pan.
> >
> >Will also see if I can find a hump hose as well.
> >
> >Hopefully should have things all together by next weekend.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Tony
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: millers1 <millers1 at aol.com>
> >To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> >Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 11:54 am
> >Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> >
> >
> >A lot of good guidance has been offered on the Muffler issue.
> >I would add two comments:
> >I removed the muffler( easy job).  Put some water in it. Using a bicycle
> pump
> >pressurized
> >it to 1 or 2 psi.  Water leaked out  2 screw holes and a bottom flange
> area. I
> >cleaned/ glassed the
> >problem areas (re-run the pressure test on the fix).. I had to glass
> closed
> one
> >of the screw
> >holes and move it closer to the edge. Then
> >I installed a "hump hose" in the engine exhaust line to de-stress the load
> on
> >the muffler.
> >good Luck,
> >Art  #680
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: pat reynolds <lorasalum at yahoo.com>
> >To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> >Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 10:38 am
> >Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> >
> >Water in the engine pan could be from a few areas.  If it is coming from
> the
> >muffler it should be easy to spot when the engine is running.  On our boat
> the
> >water did run along the front of the muffler and down into the engine pan.
> Most
> >
> >of the water should end up in the bilge area however. If it is a crack in
> either
> >
> >of the tubes of the muffler you may have some success trying to epoxy the
> area.
> >If it is from the bottom less success.  If you are going to remove the
> muffler I
> >
> >would suggest that you cut the hose running to the intake tube from the
> mixing
> >elbow so you don't break off the intake tube (from experience)  The hose
> is
>
> >easily replaceable.  We had a shop reglass the bottom but it didn't last
> so
> we
> >tried ourselves on two occasions before finally calling Catalina for a new
> one.
> >
> >If you are getting a new one be sure to send them the old muffler and not
> just
> >pictures as they have several different molds with different intake
> angles.
>
> >(again from
> > experience).
> >
> >All that being said if you can't see water exiting from the muffler the
> leak is
> >elsewhere.  Check all engine hose connections and the hoses.  Check the
> >connection from the overflow container.  Determine if it is water or
> >antifreeze.  Good luck
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: "amshd2 at aol.com" <amshd2 at aol.com>
> >To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> >Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 10:30 PM
> >Subject: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> >
> >
> >Went to the boat today and started her up from her long winter nap. I dont
> think
> >
> >she wanted to get up because after I shut her down I found about 2 cups of
> water
> >
> >in the eng catch pan.  Looks like it is coming from the muffler.
> >
> >I know this has been covered here before so I guess its my turn to R/R the
> >muffler and explore my options and ask alot of questions should have paid
> more
> >attention before.  What really kills me is how can it just go bad over teh
> >winter.
> >
> >How bad do they leak whne they go bad????
> >
> >I think one COA is to send mine to Catalina.  How long is the turn around
> time.
> >Do they just fix mine or is it a new unit.  Any idea on current cost.
> >
> >Is there anyone that knows where to go and get it fixed around Annapolis.
> >
> >And I think I have seen where someone was able to by one for an
> aftermarket
>
> >supplier.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Tony
> >#30
> >
> >
> >
> >
>