[C320-list] Water lift Muffler

Tue May 7 10:17:17 PDT 2013

Great suggestion.

Kirk Mueller
Second Chance #361
Rock Hall, Maryland

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:58 PM, jim brown <jbrown5093 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It seems that there is a common problem with these mufflers and it doesn't
> seem like a part that should fail as soon as some of them have (500 hours
> is not a lot of hours) and since it has no moving parts I wonder how the
> "seam" would so consistently fail mostly around the screw holes. I think it
> is possible that they were originally screwed down with a screw gun without
> regard to the torque of the screw on the muffler. I think this is also the
> reason that the acrylic fiddles in the head always seem to break at the
> screws. If I were replacing it (with exactly the same design it seems)  I'd
> definitely use a anti=vibration mat and not torque the screws gorilla tight.
>
> Jim Brown
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Irving Grunes <igrunes at gmail.com>
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
>
>
> It doesn't seem that you are running the engine long enough so that it gets
> hot to burn out the carbon.
> Irv Grunes
> 2001 #851
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Bruce Hunter <swampcreek42 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Tony,
> >         I did the hot tub impeller repair back in the mid 90's so it was
> > the original JB Weld. I like the newer fast setting stuff for general
> > repairs but for serious repairs such as keeping water in it's proper
> place
> > I trust the slow cure stuff better. Right or wrong I have it in my head
> > that slow curing means extra strength.
> >
> >  After reading Danny's reply I'm a little concerned about my own
> > equipment! My boat is a year 2000 with only 299 engine hours so now I'm
> > thinking engine hours verses time. I do put my hand on the riser after a
> > run and it is always cool so I guess all is well BUT to steal a phrase
> off
> > Niel Young...Rust Never Sleeps! When I ran power boats I gave exhaust
> > manifolds and risers 5 to 7 years and simply replaced everything but I
> > stacked up some serious hours during that time (One of the many reasons I
> > went to sailing) plus here on the Chesapeake things corrode real fast.
> If
> > I was in your situation I think I would make the repair and carefully
> > monitor it and quickly order the new parts that Danny mentioned.
> >
> > Bruce Hunter
> > Nauti Time #719
> >
> > From: danny jensen <danny at jensenshouse.com>
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> >
> > After you patch up your muffler, you should consider replacing your
> > patched muffler with a new muffler from Catalina for $374.00 and do the
> > mixing elbow while you are at it. You were lucky you were not taking a
> > taking a trip when the muffler blew. I like the idea of using the mat
> > between the muffler and the hull. I have installed a hump hose and it
> does
> > seem to reduce the vibration. I believe it is a good idea to read the
> > accounts of boats that floated floorboards and had soot all over their
> boat
> > when their muffler failed.  I have read these accounts and I would rather
> > play it safe replacing muffler with a new muffler.
> >
> >
> > Here are the details of my mixing elbow / aqua lift muffler replacement
> > project.
> >
> > I have about 500 hours on a 2004 C320 with a Yanmar 3GM30F-YEU. The
> > mechanic recommended I change the mixing elbow in the next 12 months.
> The
> > U Mixing Elbow inside was corroded at the point where the raw cool raw
> > water mixes with exhaust. The riser appeared to be in good shape but the
> > two parts looked to be bonded together and my mechanic told me to replace
> > the entire assembly Elbow, riser and join. I read several owners accounts
> > of failed mixing elbows and mufflers / muffler repairs. The lead time to
> > get a muffler from Catalina was estimated to be 2 months.  The general
> > consensus was to replace the muffler after about 10 years. Mufflers seem
> to
> > fail mostly near the screw holes in the corners. Some owners think this
> is
> > due to vibration from the engine exhaust hose. I used Jeff Hares rule and
> > decided to replace the muffler on my schedule instead of the boats
> schedule
> > especially because of  the 2 month lead time for the muffler. The cost of
> > the muffler
> >  from Catalina was $374.
> >
> > I contacted Ken Roy at Catalina and gave him my hull number and some
> > pictures and dimensions of my existing muffler (it is for sale now). Ken
> > asked for some more dimensions. Ken sent me back a picture of the muffler
> > he proposed to make for me and requested payment. It took about 2 months
> > total to get the muffler.
> > I ordered the gasket, mixing elbow, SS joint and riser exhaust from
> > Bayshore Marine(see below). Next, I considered the muffler vibration
> issue.
> > Some owners felt that a hump hose would isolate the vibration from the
> > engine to the muffler.  The existing wet exhaust hose connecting mixing
> > elbow to muffler input was a 22 inch 2 in. id.  I decided replace with 2
> > hose segments of more flexible trident corrugated exhaust hose joined
> > together with an exhaust hump hose I purchased from Catalina Direct.
> >
> > Here are the details. The procedure took about 3.5 hours including
> driving
> > home once.
> >
> > 1.    I turned off the raw water thru hull,  disconnected the 3/8 hose
> > connection at the elbow, the 4 riser exhaust bolts came off with no
> > problem. Then I disconnected the elbow from the 2 in. exhaust hose. I
> used
> > a radiator hose pick to remove the hoses. They came right off with no
> > problem. Don't sweat removing the hoses.
> >
> > 2.    I took the old elbow assembly home where I used it for reference to
> > create the new assembly using a vise. I don't believe you can create the
> > new assembly without the help of a vise and 2 large adjustable 15 in
> > wrenches. Don't try to make the new assembly on your boat! You will need
> to
> > twist the 3/8 in input 180 degrees then you will need to create the exact
> > same angle as the old elbow by threading the joint into the elbow and
> > exhaust riser. I used high temperature anti seize on the joint threads
> > before assembly.
> >
> > 3.    I used a gasket scraper to easily remove the old gasket. Then I
> > applied some high temp gasket seating material to both sides of the new
> > gasket and bolted the elbow assembly to the motor.
> >
> > 4.    I removed the 4 stainless screws securing the muffler to the boat
> > and I removed the output exhaust hose from the old muffler using the
> > radiator hose pick. The hoses come off the muffler without any problem.
> > The muffler comes out of the boat without any problem.
> >
> > 5.    I put the new muffler in place and connected the output exhaust
> hose
> > without any issues. I found the screw holes on the new muffler did not
> > match the screw holes on the muffler.  I could get the 2 screw holes
> > forward to line up but then the aft screw holes with not align with the
> > existing holes. Access to the forward inboard screw is somewhat limited
> so
> > you will want to match the forward inboard screw with the existing hole
> > then use a drill motor to self tap new holes with the muffler in place.
> The
> > existing self tapping screws were in good shape and I did not need to
> drill
> > pilot holes, I just drove the screws into the glass with the muffler in
> > place after I screwed down the forward screws. Apply a good amount of
> > silicon grease to the muffler drain.
> >
> > 6.    I used a sawzall to cut an 8 in and 13 in segment of corrugated
> > exhaust hose then I joined them with a hump hose using double hose clamps
> > on each side of the hump hose. Then I connected the hose to the mixing
> > elbow and the input side of the muffler.
> >
> > 7.    I turned on the thru hull and ran the engine. White fiberglass
> chips
> > from the new muffler were spitting out the exhaust for a while. No leaks.
> > The hump hose appeared to do the job limiting vibration. I left the rear
> > engine cover off and took the boat out in open water and ran the motor up
> > 3000 RPM. I went below and to my surprise I saw smoke coming from the
> > exhaust riser side of the stainless steel joint nut!  No water. It
> appeared
> > that the joint was oozing and burning anti-seize.  After about 10 minutes
> > this smoking stopped.  I'm assuming this is normal but it spooked me. I'm
> > going to put a co2 monitor in the aft cabin to make sure I don't have gas
> > leaks.
> >
> > Parts:
> > bayshore marine:
> > 128370-13201 gasket    $4.92
> > 124070-13520 U mixing elbow    $169.33
> > 128370-13610 riser exhaust    $130.39
> > 104214-13580 joint         $28.79
> > Note:
> > 27233-250000 plug            comes with 124070-13610
> > 124070-13300 elbow 3/8    comes with 124070-13610
> >
> > Parts from Catalina Yachts (Ken at catalinayachts.com)
> > 1 Muffler $374 plus Shipping
> >
> > Parts from Catalina direct:
> > High Temp Anti-Seize Compound (#Z2858): 1 Item Total: $15.95 Exhaust Hump
> > Hose 1-5/8"I.D X 6" (#Z2152): 1 Item Total: $31.49
> >
> > Tools Harbor Freight
> > 8" Radiator Hose Pick $3.99
> > Carbon/Gasket Scraper $2.99
> > High Temp Gasket seating compound
> >
> > MMI Marine
> > TRI252-2004
> > TRIDENT CORRUGATED FLEX SAE J2006 MARINE WET EXHAUST HOSE (HARD WALL WITH
> > WIRE)  - 2 Feet  $15.00 BUA70HSS36C
> > BUCK HOSE CLAMPS S/S FROM 1 13/16" TO 2 3/4"    4 $8.00
> >
> > Danny Jensen
> > A BOA VIDA
> > Hull 972
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com [mailto:
> > c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Jane & Ken
> > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 2:10 PM
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> > Tony, true, the cooling temp should remain below 200   however the
> muffler
> > draws water from the lake and mixes it with the engine exhaust which is
> > well above 200 and the resulting mixture can become very hot (it should
> > not, but it can for a multitude of reasons).  Better safe than sorry.
>  Ken
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/6/13, amshd2 at aol.com <amshd2 at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: amshd2 at aol.com <amshd2 at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 2:42 PM
> >
> >
> > I have used JB Weld in the past never thought about using it here but now
> > considering it.  Does anyone know for sure how hot the muffler box gets.
> > Does it get up to $212 Deg F.
> >
> > After I read some of the emails about using JB Weld vs West System I gave
> > West Tec Support a call. They said I  should be OK to over 200 deg F if I
> > add Glass and the 404 filler.  I was thinking that since my eng operating
> > temp is around `175 I thought I might be OK.
> >
> > Bruce which JB Weld product did you use ??  I went on line to JB Weld saw
> > lots of differetnt products.
> >
> > Wonder if I can use JB Weld in the crack and cover with West and Glass.
> >
> > I would rather go with over kill than have to do this again anytime soon.
> >
> > Thanks Again
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net>
> > To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Sent: Mon, May 6, 2013 2:16 pm
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> >
> > Bruce,
> > Brings up a good point.  West System Epoxies will soften with heat even
> > after well cured.  Most parts of the water lift muffler should never get
> > over 212 Deg F.  However, GB Weld is higher temperature and should not
> > soften with these temperatures.
> >
> > Bruce Heyman
> > bruceheyman at cox.net
> > (949) 289-8400
> > Somerset #671 Dana Point, CA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> > [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
> Hunter
> > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 6:29 AM
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> > West System is great stuff, I'm a big fan. However if or when I would
> make
> > a
> > repair such as this (water, high temperatures) I'd use JB Weld (big fan
> of
> > that too), I only say that because I glued a broken hot tub water
> impeller
> > back together thinking "what the heck, it's worth a try", it worked for
> > years and as far as I know it's still together (We've sinced moved). But
> > West system good too, just a thought...
> >
> > Bruce Hunter
> > Nauti Time #719
> >
> > From: Bruce Heyman <bruceheyman at cox.net>
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 11:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> >
> >
> > Tony,
> > I would recommend that you add milled fibers to the West Systems and
> clean
> > the area well with acetone after you are sure it is 100% dry.
> > Good luck!
> > Bruce
> >
> > Bruce Heyman
> > (949) 289-8400
> >
> > amshd2 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >I would like to thank all that responded the information you shared
> helped
> > alot.
> > >
> > >Went back to the boat today and traced the leak to the muffler.  I
> pulled
> > the muffler. It came out much easier than  thought.  Did not even have to
> > use my heat gun,
> > >
> > >Found a 3 in hair line crack in the seem on the bottom edge. I can
> hardly
> > believe water could seep through but I was able to watch water seep out.
> > My
> > plan is to grind out the loose glass and fill with the West System.  Also
> > plan to fill all the screw holes. If there is something out there that
> will
> > work better than the west system please let me know.
> > >
> > >I am going to lay down a piece of anti vibration matt that I got from
> > Soundown,  between the muffler and the pan.
> > >
> > >Will also see if I can find a hump hose as well.
> > >
> > >Hopefully should have things all together by next weekend.
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: millers1 <millers1 at aol.com>
> > >To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > >Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 11:54 am
> > >Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >A lot of good guidance has been offered on the Muffler issue.
> > >I would add two comments:
> > >I removed the muffler( easy job).  Put some water in it. Using a bicycle
> > pump
> > >pressurized
> > >it to 1 or 2 psi.  Water leaked out  2 screw holes and a bottom flange
> > area. I
> > >cleaned/ glassed the
> > >problem areas (re-run the pressure test on the fix).. I had to glass
> > closed
> > one
> > >of the screw
> > >holes and move it closer to the edge. Then
> > >I installed a "hump hose" in the engine exhaust line to de-stress the
> load
> > on
> > >the muffler.
> > >good Luck,
> > >Art  #680
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: pat reynolds <lorasalum at yahoo.com>
> > >To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > >Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 10:38 am
> > >Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> > >
> > >
> > >Water in the engine pan could be from a few areas.  If it is coming from
> > the
> > >muffler it should be easy to spot when the engine is running.  On our
> boat
> > the
> > >water did run along the front of the muffler and down into the engine
> pan.
> > Most
> > >
> > >of the water should end up in the bilge area however. If it is a crack
> in
> > either
> > >
> > >of the tubes of the muffler you may have some success trying to epoxy
> the
> > area.
> > >If it is from the bottom less success.  If you are going to remove the
> > muffler I
> > >
> > >would suggest that you cut the hose running to the intake tube from the
> > mixing
> > >elbow so you don't break off the intake tube (from experience)  The hose
> > is
> >
> > >easily replaceable.  We had a shop reglass the bottom but it didn't last
> > so
> > we
> > >tried ourselves on two occasions before finally calling Catalina for a
> new
> > one.
> > >
> > >If you are getting a new one be sure to send them the old muffler and
> not
> > just
> > >pictures as they have several different molds with different intake
> > angles.
> >
> > >(again from
> > > experience).
> > >
> > >All that being said if you can't see water exiting from the muffler the
> > leak is
> > >elsewhere.  Check all engine hose connections and the hoses.  Check the
> > >connection from the overflow container.  Determine if it is water or
> > >antifreeze.  Good luck
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________
> > > From: "amshd2 at aol.com" <amshd2 at aol.com>
> > >To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > >Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 10:30 PM
> > >Subject: [C320-list] Water lift Muffler
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Went to the boat today and started her up from her long winter nap. I
> dont
> > think
> > >
> > >she wanted to get up because after I shut her down I found about 2 cups
> of
> > water
> > >
> > >in the eng catch pan.  Looks like it is coming from the muffler.
> > >
> > >I know this has been covered here before so I guess its my turn to R/R
> the
> > >muffler and explore my options and ask alot of questions should have
> paid
> > more
> > >attention before.  What really kills me is how can it just go bad over
> teh
> > >winter.
> > >
> > >How bad do they leak whne they go bad????
> > >
> > >I think one COA is to send mine to Catalina.  How long is the turn
> around
> > time.
> > >Do they just fix mine or is it a new unit.  Any idea on current cost.
> > >
> > >Is there anyone that knows where to go and get it fixed around
> Annapolis.
> > >
> > >And I think I have seen where someone was able to by one for an
> > aftermarket
> >
> > >supplier.
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >#30
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>