[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 1849, Issue 1
Ian Davis
iand2002 at hotmail.com
Fri Sep 20 13:33:28 PDT 2013
Wind Star is going fine Alan. 2 Races down and three more to go this year.
Ian Davis - new owner #18
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
DOCKLIZARD at aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 3:08 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 1849, Issue 1
Does anyone know how to get OFF this list!!
I have tried 4 times, 2 different ways, and i am still here.
Sold my 320.
Thanks,
Alan
In a message dated 9/20/2013 3:02:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com writes:
Send C320-list mailing list submissions to c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Battery Charger (Warren Updike)
2. Battery Charger (katchu at chartermi.net) 3. Re: Battery Charger (Simon
Rock) 4. Deck Delamination (Danny Nichols) 5. Re: Deck Delamination (Chris
Burti)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 15:43:46 -0400
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <COL129-DS155DC3A110A4DA6208646BBE210 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
My Xantrex True Charge 2, 40A, bought 11/2010. It had threaded posts for
ring terminals. Perhaps they changed along the line.
The deal I got at HodgesMarine.com was the charger, remote panel, and temp
sensor. When a post broke and Xantrex agreed to replace it, they told me
that it would take about a month as they had none in stock. What!! the
mfgr had none in stock? Even Hodges didn't have any. Apparently, what
happened was Xantrex was in the process of switching to a newer True Charge
2 model (supports two chargers in combination,) and was waiting for a
shipment.
I got the "deal" on the older model that Xantrex couldn't replace. They
replaced it with the newer model. My good!
FYI With batteries down about 20% (80A) the 40A charger will bring them
back to about 90% in 2-3 hours; but, it takes another 4-5 hours to get to
full. That's why my batteries died earlier on the old ferro-resonant
2-stage because they were never fully charged, and were always being
charged when plugged in.
In summary, I would say that the Xantrex technology is very good; but, the
construction is not as good, perhaps a marketing decision rather than an
engineering decision, so to achieve a price advantage over competition.
Perhaps the marketing guys are power boaters and the engineers are sailors.
Warren & Pattie Updike
1994 C320 #62 "Warr De Mar"
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Hare [mailto:catalina at thehares.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:19 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Since the boat has ~350AH worth of batteries, the 40A is a much better
charger size. During charge operations it'll much spend less time being
"maxed out" which is a little harder on the internal components. The
fusing is
probably just fine since the inline fuses would be set up for protecting
against a major short, not for protecting the charger. The wires are quite
heavy and can handle the large charge currents with very little voltage
drop (which is the goal in charging circuits).
With that said, we keep our boat on the dock plugged in all the time also,
so really it spends most of its time in float but occasionally switching to
absorption modes since we have the fridge running most of the time.
The drawback of Xantrex *in my opinion* is that they have poor DC power
cable connectors. While most chargers like ProMariner, Charles, etc. use
studs with nuts/washers that take ring terminals for a secure connection,
Xantrex uses molex (I think) connectors that you stick bare wire in and
tighten a screw. So, you'll have to either use a terminal block or cut
off
the factory ring terminals (bad idea!). It used to be that the diameter of
wire they accept was smaller than the size that Catalina uses for battery
charging cables so you'd have to trim off strands down to about an 8AWG
size before it would fit. Even if they finally increased the size of these
connectors, it's a fragile connection living in storage locker where stuff
can bounce around or slide up to the charger. I'd prefer solid connections
that can't be pulled out. But this is a commentary on the installation and
suitability, not the quality of the charging product which from what I can
tell is on par with the rest of the field.
The best way to install the xantrex is to leave the ring terminals on and
use a covered terminal block to transition from ring terminals to
non-terminated wires that actually plug into the charger. Then when this
charger dies and you get a charger that has proper terminals again, you
won't need to install heavy lug ring terminals that you previously cut off.
:)
So... Go with a 40A charger. If it's a 2 battery charger, then it's really
20A per leg. If it's a 3 battery charger then it's about 13A/battery.
The stock battery was a ProMariner flyback 30 or something that was really
10A/leg X 3.
Cheers!
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
katchu at chartermi.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:53 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Thanks Jeff:
My Charles charger is a 20 amp unit. I don?t think that I want the 40 amp,
as I am at a dock and the boat is plugged in almost all the time. I think
that a 40A might require new fusing too, but I can?t find any fusing in the
existing battery circuit. This failure was just like the last one in that
there was suddenly no DC power to either bank. I checked the internal DC
fuse, and it is OK. The internal AC fuse does not appear to be user
replaceable
I like the control panel and the temperature compensation on the Xantrex,
but the ugly reviews on the WM site raised a red flag, so thought that I
might run it by the group. This group has been very positive on Xantrex,
so I was surprised by the reviews. In any case, I?m pulling my boat this
week, so I have some time to think this over.
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:57:41 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <01a001ceb3be$a4cefdb0$ee6cf910$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Out of curiosity which Charles charger do you have? How many amps?
The old flyback promariners seemed to not last too long. Ours lasted 7
years. Many owners replaced that with a Xantrex charger (accepting the
crappy connectors on the Xantrex) and were all very happy... until those
also started showing the same failures after years in service. We replaced
our ProMariner with a Charles 40 and while it's going on 6 years now I
expect to have to replace it within a few years.
Others have used IOTA and Freedom, etc. My guess is that if you had a way
of really looking at the statistics, there's no good answer. By the time
you figure out which charger last the longest, you can't actually get that
charger any more. While you can decide which chargers to avoid based on
early failures, I doubt you can do any better than that.
So, when I need to replace mine, I'm going to see if the current breed of
Charles chargers is getting a bad rap or not. If not, I'll get a new one
(knowing that it's not at all the same internal design or build as the one
I'm replacing). If ProMariner isn't getting a bad rap, I might look at
those also. It'll come down to warranty, reputation on the actual version
of the charger I'm buying.
My $.02
Cheers!
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
katchu at chartermi.net
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 2:55 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Battery charger
My Charles battery charger appears to have died again. It was on the boat
when I bought it seven years ago, and I had Charles recondition it for $85
about three years ago when it died. I recall that many of you switched to
Xantrex and were really happy. But the reviews in the WM website are very
bad with multiple early failures. Has anyone had any recent experience,
good or bad?
Thanks
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 21:24:39 +0000
From: <katchu at chartermi.net>
To: "=?utf-8?Q?c320-list at lists.catalina320.com?="
<c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <T9gW1m00443Mlgg059gWwZ at chartermi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Simon, Warren, Jeff, Bob
Thanks for all the helpful advice, Particularly your thoughts on sizing the
charger to the battery AH. I never thought of battery chargers like
anchors, but it works. I just ordered the Xantrex 40A with battery monitor
and I?ll dig through the battery compartment wiring to see if I can find
the fuses. I picked the Xantrex because I like the equalization feature
and the remote monitor.
Northwind #676 2000
Holland, MI 49424
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:17:39 -0400
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <COL129-DS204958434875B50B1BA84EBE210 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We bought the Xantrex 40A charger to replace an 18 yr old two-stage
feroresonent charger and have been very happy with it. However, we did
experience an early failure in that one of the cable connection studs
pulled out.
Xantrex support was helpful and replaced the unit. Unfortunately, out slip
mate also had an early electronic problem and the unit was replaced. We
got a super deal from Hodges Marine on the charger with remote display so I
didn't have to pay nearly twice the price for a competitive model.
The best part is that with the old charger I was constantly checking and
adding water and batteries were never fully charged - a constant worry.
With the Xantrex, I hardly ever add water, the batteries will charge fully,
and show no signs of wearing down. I'm sure the same result would be
achieved with most 3-stage, digital chargers. Before, I was considering an
expensive battery watering system. Now, don't need it. No worries.
Here is a point if you are changing chargers and upping output say from 20A
to 40A, and you have fuses in the charge cable to the batteries, be sure to
replace the fuses with a larger appropriate fuse or they will blow.
I also recommend a battery monitor. They are like a fuel gage for your
batteries in that they measure all current in and out and display a percent
full.
Warren & Pattie Updike
1994 C320 #62 "Warr De Mar"
-----------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:19:08 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <003501ceb553$f886f430$e994dc90$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Since the boat has ~350AH worth of batteries, the 40A is a much better
charger size. During charge operations it'll much spend less time being
"maxed out" which is a little harder on the internal components. The
fusing is probably just fine since the inline fuses would be set up for
protecting against a major short, not for protecting the charger. The
wires are quite heavy and can handle the large charge currents with very
little voltage drop (which is the goal in charging circuits).
With that said, we keep our boat on the dock plugged in all the time also,
so really it spends most of its time in float but occasionally switching to
absorption modes since we have the fridge running most of the time.
The drawback of Xantrex *in my opinion* is that they have poor DC power
cable connectors. While most chargers like ProMariner, Charles, etc. use
studs with nuts/washers that take ring terminals for a secure connection,
Xantrex uses molex (I think) connectors that you stick bare wire in and
tighten a screw. So, you'll have to either use a terminal block or cut
off the
factory ring terminals (bad idea!). It used to be that the diameter of
wire they accept was smaller than the size that Catalina uses for battery
charging cables so you'd have to trim off strands down to about an 8AWG
size before it would fit. Even if they finally increased the size of these
connectors, it's a fragile connection living in storage locker where stuff
can bounce around or slide up to the charger. I'd prefer solid connections
that
can't be pulled out. But this is a commentary on the installation and
suitability, not the quality of the charging product which from what I can
tell is on par with the rest of the field.
The best way to install the xantrex is to leave the ring terminals on and
use a covered terminal block to transition from ring terminals to
non-terminated wires that actually plug into the charger. Then when this
charger dies and you get a charger that has proper terminals again, you
won't need to install heavy lug ring terminals that you previously cut off.
:)
So... Go with a 40A charger. If it's a 2 battery charger, then it's really
20A per leg. If it's a 3 battery charger then it's about 13A/battery.
The stock battery was a ProMariner flyback 30 or something that was really
10A/leg X 3.
Cheers!
-Jeff
Thanks Jeff
I like the control panel and the temperature compensation on the Xantrex,
but the ugly reviews on the WM site raised a red flag, so thought that I
might run it by the group. This group has been very positive on Xantrex,
so I was surprised by the reviews. In any case, I?m pulling my boat this
week, so I have some time to think this over.
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:57:41 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <01a001ceb3be$a4cefdb0$ee6cf910$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Out of curiosity which Charles charger do you have? How many amps?
The old flyback promariners seemed to not last too long. Ours lasted 7
years. Many owners replaced that with a Xantrex charger (accepting the
crappy connectors on the Xantrex) and were all very happy... until those
also started showing the same failures after years in service. We replaced
our ProMariner with a Charles 40 and while it's going on 6 years now I
expect to have to replace it within a few years.
Others have used IOTA and Freedom, etc. My guess is that if you had a way
of really looking at the statistics, there's no good answer. By the time
you figure out which charger last the longest, you can't actually get that
charger any more. While you can decide which chargers to avoid based on
early failures, I doubt you can do any better than that.
So, when I need to replace mine, I'm going to see if the current breed of
Charles chargers is getting a bad rap or not. If not, I'll get a new one
(knowing that it's not at all the same internal design or build as the one
I'm replacing). If ProMariner isn't getting a bad rap, I might look at
those also. It'll come down to warranty, reputation on the actual version
of the charger I'm buying.
My $.02
Cheers!
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
katchu at chartermi.net
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 2:55 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Battery charger
My Charles battery charger appears to have died again. It was on the boat
when I bought it seven years ago, and I had Charles recondition it for $85
about three years ago when it died. I recall that many of you switched to
Xantrex and were really happy. But the reviews in the WM website are very
bad with multiple early failures. Has anyone had any recent experience,
good or bad?
Thanks
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:11:05 -0500
From: "resloat" <resloat at comcast.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <9F4D910167C94E64BCB69C1FB0E5E60C at SloatLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Jeff-Agree on all you said. I replaced 2 Pro Mariners over 6 years from a
new C320 Hull 894 (2002) and installed a Xantrex IC 20 in 2008. The
terminal issue is the only drawback I found and chose to not cut off the
the factory rings terminals. I trimmed the rings and bent them to fit in
the screw in terminals on the Xantrex. If I need to go back, what is left
of the ring can be easily removed from the heavy wire and new ones
installed with some effort. I could not find conversion blocks that looked
sturdy enough to use and have extra crimp on rings if needed.
So far after 5 years no problems with the Xantrex which I don't think you
can buy anymore as newer models must have come along. I am at a slip with
power and keep the refrigerator on 24/7 and the Xantrex has performed
flawlessly. I like the equalization feature and the ability to adjust
charger settings for temperature variations where the batteries are located
and the fact it will work with up to three flooded, gel or AGM batteries.
I
think they all have to be the same type. Also, you can install a battery
temperature sensor and a remote panel to monitor the charging progress.
Pro Mariner now has some solid state controlled chargers which are likely
an improvement over their ones circa 2002.
Bob Sloat
Savannah 894 (2002)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Since the boat has ~350AH worth of batteries, the 40A is a much better
charger size. During charge operations it'll much spend less time being
"maxed out" which is a little harder on the internal components. The
fusing
is probably just fine since the inline fuses would be set up for
protecting
against a major short, not for protecting the charger. The wires are
quite
heavy and can handle the large charge currents with very little voltage
drop
(which is the goal in charging circuits).
With that said, we keep our boat on the dock plugged in all the time also,
so really it spends most of its time in float but occasionally switching
to
absorption modes since we have the fridge running most of the time.
The drawback of Xantrex *in my opinion* is that they have poor DC power
cable connectors. While most chargers like ProMariner, Charles, etc. use
studs with nuts/washers that take ring terminals for a secure connection,
Xantrex uses molex (I think) connectors that you stick bare wire in and
tighten a screw. So, you'll have to either use a terminal block or cut
off
the factory ring terminals (bad idea!). It used to be that the diameter
of
wire they accept was smaller than the size that Catalina uses for battery
charging cables so you'd have to trim off strands down to about an 8AWG
size
before it would fit. Even if they finally increased the size of these
connectors, it's a fragile connection living in storage locker where stuff
can bounce around or slide up to the charger. I'd prefer solid
connections
that can't be pulled out. But this is a commentary on the installation
and
suitability, not the quality of the charging product which from what I can
tell is on par with the rest of the field.
The best way to install the xantrex is to leave the ring terminals on and
use a covered terminal block to transition from ring terminals to
non-terminated wires that actually plug into the charger. Then when this
charger dies and you get a charger that has proper terminals again, you
won't need to install heavy lug ring terminals that you previously cut
off.
:)
So... Go with a 40A charger. If it's a 2 battery charger, then it's
really
20A per leg. If it's a 3 battery charger then it's about 13A/battery.
The
stock battery was a ProMariner flyback 30 or something that was really
10A/leg X 3.
Cheers!
-Jeff
Thanks Jeff:
My Charles charger is a 20 amp unit. I don?t think that I want the 40
amp,
as I am at a dock and the boat is plugged in almost all the time. I think
that a 40A might require new fusing too, but I can?t find any fusing in
the
existing battery circuit. This failure was just like the last one in that
there was suddenly no DC power to either bank. I checked the internal DC
fuse, and it is OK. The internal AC fuse does not appear to be user
replaceable
I like the control panel and the temperature compensation on the Xantrex,
but the ugly reviews on the WM site raised a red flag, so thought that I
might run it by the group. This group has been very positive on Xantrex,
so
I was surprised by the reviews. In any case, I?m pulling my boat this
week,
so I have some time to think this over.
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:57:41 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <01a001ceb3be$a4cefdb0$ee6cf910$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Out of curiosity which Charles charger do you have? How many amps?
The old flyback promariners seemed to not last too long. Ours lasted 7
years. Many owners replaced that with a Xantrex charger (accepting the
crappy connectors on the Xantrex) and were all very happy... until those
also started showing the same failures after years in service. We
replaced
our ProMariner with a Charles 40 and while it's going on 6 years now I
expect to have to replace it within a few years.
Others have used IOTA and Freedom, etc. My guess is that if you had a way
of really looking at the statistics, there's no good answer. By the time
you figure out which charger last the longest, you can't actually get that
charger any more. While you can decide which chargers to avoid based on
early failures, I doubt you can do any better than that.
So, when I need to replace mine, I'm going to see if the current breed of
Charles chargers is getting a bad rap or not. If not, I'll get a new one
(knowing that it's not at all the same internal design or build as the one
I'm replacing). If ProMariner isn't getting a bad rap, I might look at
those also. It'll come down to warranty, reputation on the actual version
of the charger I'm buying.
My $.02
Cheers!
-Jeff
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 12:20:12 +1000
From: "Simon Rock" <simonrock at gmail.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <008101ceb5a7$f106be80$d3143b80$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Chuck,
Battery selection, charging and monitoring is a common topic throughout
the sailing world (from trailer sailors to big keel boats). Power is a
very
important topic in today's marine world, and it always amazes me that so
many sailors lack even a basic understanding of the topic. There are plenty
of great resources out there, and there is always the internet.
I have read many articles on battery selection and sizing. As with any
technology, what was written a few years ago may not still be correct
today.
Look at batteries - 2 years ago LiPO batteries would not have been
considered viable for normal cruising usage, but advances in this area have
now made
their use viable. But, if you relied on articles written two years ago,
you would not even consider them.
My point. The internet is a great resource, but it must not be taken as
gospel, and all information sourced from the internet must be considered in
the context and timeframe it was written in. Plus there are some idiots out
there, that will argue very strongly for their particular favorite
technology, referencing all sorts of data (they are probably the same
people that
claim men never walked on the moon :-) ).
Cheers
Simon
Simon Rock
Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
Cat375 #54 Rock The Boat
Cat375 #41 Rocket
Cat320 #1163 Rockstar (Sold)
Experience The Whitsundays
www.cya.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
katchu at chartermi.net
Sent: Friday, 20 September 2013 7:25 AM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Simon, Warren, Jeff, Bob
Thanks for all the helpful advice, Particularly your thoughts on sizing
the charger to the battery AH. I never thought of battery chargers like
anchors, but it works. I just ordered the Xantrex 40A with battery monitor
and
I?ll dig through the battery compartment wiring to see if I can find the
fuses. I picked the Xantrex because I like the equalization feature and
the
remote monitor.
Northwind #676 2000
Holland, MI 49424
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:17:39 -0400
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <COL129-DS204958434875B50B1BA84EBE210 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We bought the Xantrex 40A charger to replace an 18 yr old two-stage
feroresonent charger and have been very happy with it. However, we did
experience
an early failure in that one of the cable connection studs pulled out.
Xantrex support was helpful and replaced the unit. Unfortunately, out slip
mate also had an early electronic problem and the unit was replaced. We
got
a super deal from Hodges Marine on the charger with remote display so I
didn't have to pay nearly twice the price for a competitive model.
The best part is that with the old charger I was constantly checking and
adding water and batteries were never fully charged - a constant worry.
With the Xantrex, I hardly ever add water, the batteries will charge fully,
and show no signs of wearing down. I'm sure the same result would be
achieved with most 3-stage, digital chargers. Before, I was considering an
expensive battery watering system. Now, don't need it. No worries.
Here is a point if you are changing chargers and upping output say from
20A to 40A, and you have fuses in the charge cable to the batteries, be
sure
to replace the fuses with a larger appropriate fuse or they will blow.
I also recommend a battery monitor. They are like a fuel gage for your
batteries in that they measure all current in and out and display a percent
full.
Warren & Pattie Updike
1994 C320 #62 "Warr De Mar"
-----------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:19:08 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <003501ceb553$f886f430$e994dc90$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Since the boat has ~350AH worth of batteries, the 40A is a much better
charger size. During charge operations it'll much spend less time being
"maxed out" which is a little harder on the internal components. The
fusing is
probably just fine since the inline fuses would be set up for protecting
against a major short, not for protecting the charger. The wires are quite
heavy and can handle the large charge currents with very little voltage
drop
(which is the goal in charging circuits).
With that said, we keep our boat on the dock plugged in all the time also,
so really it spends most of its time in float but occasionally switching
to absorption modes since we have the fridge running most of the time.
The drawback of Xantrex *in my opinion* is that they have poor DC power
cable connectors. While most chargers like ProMariner, Charles, etc. use
studs with nuts/washers that take ring terminals for a secure connection,
Xantrex uses molex (I think) connectors that you stick bare wire in and
tighten a screw. So, you'll have to either use a terminal block or cut
off the
factory ring terminals (bad idea!). It used to be that the diameter of
wire they accept was smaller than the size that Catalina uses for battery
charging cables so you'd have to trim off strands down to about an 8AWG
size
before it would fit. Even if they finally increased the size of these
connectors, it's a fragile connection living in storage locker where stuff
can
bounce around or slide up to the charger. I'd prefer solid connections
that
can't be pulled out. But this is a commentary on the installation and
suitability, not the quality of the charging product which from what I can
tell is on par with
the rest of the field.
The best way to install the xantrex is to leave the ring terminals on and
use a covered terminal block to transition from ring terminals to
non-terminated wires that actually plug into the charger. Then when this
charger
dies and you get a charger that has proper terminals again, you won't need
to
install heavy lug ring terminals that you previously cut off. :)
So... Go with a 40A charger. If it's a 2 battery charger, then it's
really 20A per leg. If it's a 3 battery charger then it's about
13A/battery.
The stock battery was a ProMariner flyback 30 or something that was really
10A/leg X 3.
Cheers!
-Jeff
Thanks Jeff
I like the control panel and the temperature compensation on the Xantrex,
but the ugly reviews on the WM site raised a red flag, so thought that I
might run it by the group. This group has been very positive on Xantrex,
so
I was surprised by the reviews. In any case, I?m pulling my boat this
week, so I have some time to think this over.
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:57:41 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <01a001ceb3be$a4cefdb0$ee6cf910$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Out of curiosity which Charles charger do you have? How many amps?
The old flyback promariners seemed to not last too long. Ours lasted 7
years. Many owners replaced that with a Xantrex charger (accepting the
crappy connectors on the Xantrex) and were all very happy... until those
also
started showing the same failures after years in service. We replaced our
ProMariner with a Charles 40 and while it's going on 6 years now I expect
to
have to replace it within a few years.
Others have used IOTA and Freedom, etc. My guess is that if you had a way
of really looking at the statistics, there's no good answer. By the time
you figure out which charger last the longest, you can't actually get that
charger any more. While you can decide which chargers to avoid based on
early failures, I doubt you can do any better than that.
So, when I need to replace mine, I'm going to see if the current breed of
Charles chargers is getting a bad rap or not. If not, I'll get a new one
(knowing that it's not at all the same internal design or build as the one
I'm replacing). If ProMariner isn't getting a bad rap, I might look at
those also. It'll come down to warranty, reputation on the actual version
of
the charger I'm buying.
My $.02
Cheers!
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
katchu at chartermi.net
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 2:55 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Battery charger
My Charles battery charger appears to have died again. It was on the boat
when I bought it seven years ago, and I had Charles recondition it for $85
about three years ago when it died. I recall that many of you switched to
Xantrex and were really happy. But the reviews in the WM website are very
bad with multiple early failures. Has anyone had any recent experience,
good or bad?
Thanks
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:11:05 -0500
From: "resloat" <resloat at comcast.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Message-ID: <9F4D910167C94E64BCB69C1FB0E5E60C at SloatLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Jeff-Agree on all you said. I replaced 2 Pro Mariners over 6 years from a
new C320 Hull 894 (2002) and installed a Xantrex IC 20 in 2008. The
terminal issue is the only drawback I found and chose to not cut off the
the
factory rings terminals. I trimmed the rings and bent them to fit in the
screw in terminals on the Xantrex. If I need to go back, what is left of
the
ring can be easily removed from the heavy wire and new ones installed with
some effort. I could not find conversion blocks that looked sturdy enough
to use and have extra crimp on rings if needed.
So far after 5 years no problems with the Xantrex which I don't think you
can buy anymore as newer models must have come along. I am at a slip with
power and keep the refrigerator on 24/7 and the Xantrex has performed
flawlessly. I like the equalization feature and the ability to adjust
charger
settings for temperature variations where the batteries are located and the
fact it will work with up to three flooded, gel or AGM batteries. I think
they all have to be the same type. Also, you can install a battery
temperature sensor and a remote panel to monitor the charging progress.
Pro Mariner now has some solid state controlled chargers which are likely
an improvement over their ones circa 2002.
Bob Sloat
Savannah 894 (2002)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery Charger
Since the boat has ~350AH worth of batteries, the 40A is a much better
charger size. During charge operations it'll much spend less time being
"maxed out" which is a little harder on the internal components. The
fusing
is probably just fine since the inline fuses would be set up for
protecting
against a major short, not for protecting the charger. The wires are
quite
heavy and can handle the large charge currents with very little voltage
drop
(which is the goal in charging circuits).
With that said, we keep our boat on the dock plugged in all the time also,
so really it spends most of its time in float but occasionally switching
to
absorption modes since we have the fridge running most of the time.
The drawback of Xantrex *in my opinion* is that they have poor DC power
cable connectors. While most chargers like ProMariner, Charles, etc. use
studs with nuts/washers that take ring terminals for a secure connection,
Xantrex uses molex (I think) connectors that you stick bare wire in and
tighten a screw. So, you'll have to either use a terminal block or cut
off
the factory ring terminals (bad idea!). It used to be that the diameter
of
wire they accept was smaller than the size that Catalina uses for battery
charging cables so you'd have to trim off strands down to about an 8AWG
size
before it would fit. Even if they finally increased the size of these
connectors, it's a fragile connection living in storage locker where stuff
can bounce around or slide up to the charger. I'd prefer solid
connections
that can't be pulled out. But this is a commentary on the installation
and
suitability, not the quality of the charging product which from what I can
tell is on par with the rest of the field.
The best way to install the xantrex is to leave the ring terminals on and
use a covered terminal block to transition from ring terminals to
non-terminated wires that actually plug into the charger. Then when this
charger dies and you get a charger that has proper terminals again, you
won't need to install heavy lug ring terminals that you previously cut
off.
:)
So... Go with a 40A charger. If it's a 2 battery charger, then it's
really
20A per leg. If it's a 3 battery charger then it's about 13A/battery.
The
stock battery was a ProMariner flyback 30 or something that was really
10A/leg X 3.
Cheers!
-Jeff
Thanks Jeff:
My Charles charger is a 20 amp unit. I don?t think that I want the 40
amp,
as I am at a dock and the boat is plugged in almost all the time. I think
that a 40A might require new fusing too, but I can?t find any fusing in
the
existing battery circuit. This failure was just like the last one in that
there was suddenly no DC power to either bank. I checked the internal DC
fuse, and it is OK. The internal AC fuse does not appear to be user
replaceable
I like the control panel and the temperature compensation on the Xantrex,
but the ugly reviews on the WM site raised a red flag, so thought that I
might run it by the group. This group has been very positive on Xantrex,
so
I was surprised by the reviews. In any case, I?m pulling my boat this
week,
so I have some time to think this over.
Chuck Mueller
Northwind #676
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:57:41 -0400
From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Battery charger
Message-ID: <01a001ceb3be$a4cefdb0$ee6cf910$@thehares.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Out of curiosity which Charles charger do you have? How many amps?
The old flyback promariners seemed to not last too long. Ours lasted 7
years. Many owners replaced that with a Xantrex charger (accepting the
crappy connectors on the Xantrex) and were all very happy... until those
also started showing the same failures after years in service. We
replaced
our ProMariner with a Charles 40 and while it's going on 6 years now I
expect to have to replace it within a few years.
Others have used IOTA and Freedom, etc. My guess is that if you had a way
of really looking at the statistics, there's no good answer. By the time
you figure out which charger last the longest, you can't actually get that
charger any more. While you can decide which chargers to avoid based on
early failures, I doubt you can do any better than that.
So, when I need to replace mine, I'm going to see if the current breed of
Charles chargers is getting a bad rap or not. If not, I'll get a new one
(knowing that it's not at all the same internal design or build as the one
I'm replacing). If ProMariner isn't getting a bad rap, I might look at
those also. It'll come down to warranty, reputation on the actual version
of the charger I'm buying.
My $.02
Cheers!
-Jeff
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 22:04:26 -0700
From: Danny Nichols <dkn420 at sbcglobal.net>
To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: [C320-list] Deck Delamination
Message-ID: <CE61256A.1BBB7%dkn420 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I recently had a Marine Survey of my 2002 C320 and the following is taken
from the survey document. Has anyone else had a similar occurrence or
issue
of this kind? Thanks. Dan Nichols #876 Aja.
"There was a small-delaminated area on the starboard side deck adjacent to
the aft end of the jib sheet track. There was a small delaminated area on
the starboard side deck approximately 1/3 of the of the length of the jib
sheet track from the aft end of the track. There was no cracking or
elevated
moisture meter readings noted at the aft delamination. There was gelcoat
cracking adjacent to the forward delamination but no elevated moisture
meter
readings. I recommend that the delaminated spots in the deck be drilled and
injected with epoxy to seal the FRP to the core. There were no elevated
moisture meter readings noted on the remainder of the deck."
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 07:27:00 -0700
From: Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com>
To: Danny Nichols <dkn420 at sbcglobal.net>,
"c320-list at lists.catalina320.com" <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Deck Delamination
Message-ID: <-6845598916089422059 at unknownmsgid>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
We had a bubble in the deck nonskid gel coat in this area on the port
side. I opened it up completely and it did not penetrate the lay-up.
Cosmetic issue only.
Thanks, Chris Burti From: Danny Nichols
Sent: 9/20/2013 1:04 AM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Deck Delamination
I recently had a Marine Survey of my 2002 C320 and the following is taken
from the survey document. Has anyone else had a similar occurrence or
issue
of this kind? Thanks. Dan Nichols #876 Aja.
"There was a small-delaminated area on the starboard side deck adjacent to
the aft end of the jib sheet track. There was a small delaminated area on
the starboard side deck approximately 1/3 of the of the length of the jib
sheet track from the aft end of the track. There was no cracking or
elevated
moisture meter readings noted at the aft delamination. There was gelcoat
cracking adjacent to the forward delamination but no elevated moisture
meter
readings. I recommend that the delaminated spots in the deck be drilled and
injected with epoxy to seal the FRP to the core. There were no elevated
moisture meter readings noted on the remainder of the deck."
End of C320-list Digest, Vol 1849, Issue 1
******************************************
More information about the C320-list
mailing list