[C320-list] Forum "architecture"

[tharrison at innovations-plus.com]

I agree and DOUBLE the THANKS.

My dream (Magic Moment) would not be where she is today without this site. It is simple to use. I have gotten replies in such an unbelievable quick fashion, truly amazing. 

The site has inspired me to document what I learned from this group and share the information back. Even though I am a newbie. It is one way I can contribute back. 

So if you are a complainer, step up with your time and money. If your not willing to take it on, sit back enjoy the benefits in this forum. In other words put up or shut up. 

Bold statement yes, and straight up, 

Ted Harrison
Hull 424
Whitby Ontario 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:31 PM, Joseph R Aberdale <summerwind3 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> I don’t have your skills but do have an appreciation of the time and work involved. I knew very little about my C320 when I purchased it 6 years ago but was determined to do all of my own work. This site has provided me with virtually all of the knowledge I have acquired to work on my boat and to solve problems that have arisen. I cannot imagine arriving at the point I’m at now without having this site to rely on. There was never a need for it to be perfect. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR ALL THAT YOU HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO. IT IS TRULY APPRECIATED AND IS INVALUABLE!
> 
> Joe Aberdale
> Morning Star
> #908
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear members.
>> 
>> This is long but important as it marks a turning point.
>> 
>> I'm really not trying to be a brick wall here, but since this is and has
>> been essentially "my baby" whether I really wanted it or not for the past 12
>> years, let's clear up a few things. I'm a professional software engineer by
>> trade with a background in electrical engineering. I sit in front of a bank
>> of monitors and write software for web startup companies 10 hours a day as I
>> have for years. I completely understand this stuff inside and out at a level
>> that makes most people run screaming from the room.  :)
>> 
>> So, first I'll state the obvious so we're all on the same page.
>> 
>> Today we have an email based discussion list, not a browser driven forum. We
>> also set up a Google Discussion group that is Read-Only for searching (
>> **for now** ). Google is the undeniable expert in search. The reason for an
>> email discussion list is partly historical and partly because it is
>> incredibly easy for members to participate, even when out on your boat in a
>> harbor with very slow Wi-Fi or poor cell coverage. Try browsing or searching
>> a web forum from your phone or tablet with only a single non-4G bar on your
>> phone. Talk about frustrating!!! Text based email on the other hand will
>> come through quickly and you're likely to get an answer to urgent questions
>> just as quickly.
>> 
>> If you want a place to carry on categorized social discussions, forums are
>> great vehicle for that. This was really intended to be an owners technical
>> support forum, not a social forum. So CLEARLY we disagree on the intended
>> goal here.
>> 
>> I will add that searching most BBS/web based discussion forums can be a
>> frustrating experience because nearly all BBS systems rely on the database
>> engine text matching for locating results. That totally stinks for finding
>> quality results in context. Good contextual search is *very* hard. The C34's
>> forum is no different there. Quality historical search is the reason for
>> setting up an archive history using Google Groups.
>> 
>> Our discussion list *CAN* allow pictures, attachments, rich text, all that
>> and more.  That opens the door to viruses, inappropriate posts, etc.. (a
>> tradeoff).  We (I) deliberately operate it in plain text mode because of the
>> List's builtin archiving feature.  You can download all the discussion list
>> history to your laptop or tablet and have it available off line.  These
>> archives go back to October 2005 and cover everything that was ever
>> discussed here. You can see this in action here:  
>> http://lists.catalina320.com/pipermail/c320-list-catalina320.com/
>> 
>> The intent was that some volunteer or team of volunteers could use these
>> text based archives to produce a solid knowledge base of information and
>> best practices that has been captured in discussions over time. Because they
>> are plain text and require no special software to read, that makes them a
>> snap to copy/paste into any article or knowledge base.  So that's something
>> anyway that isn't *useless* as I keep hearing.  I intended to write some
>> software that would organize and keyword index these to use on our website.
>> Best laid plans...
>> 
>> Ok, Great, or Terrible depending on which of the many sides of this
>> discussion you happen to fall on.
>> 
>> The plan is (and has been for some time now) to enable social media Single
>> Sign-On into our website so that if you're signed into Google, Facebook,
>> Twitter or a myriad of other options, we'll be able to authenticate you as
>> an association member and allow you to participate without having to sign in
>> all over the place. Then we would make the switch over so that you can
>> participate in the discussion list through the Google Group web interface,
>> through email or both.  And it would be second nature and just work.
>> 
>> Just "wanting it" isn't enough to make it happen. There are many safeguards
>> that have to fall in place to keep things restricted to owners and those who
>> have a genuine interest in the Catalina 320.  This means writing and testing
>> more custom software. No out of the box system does this completely today.
>> None. It has to be programmed into existence and maintained, or you have to
>> decide which of the features you have now you're willing to give up in
>> exchange.  There is nothing but a large set of trade-offs to make here.
>> 
>> A new mobile device responsive version of our website was in development as
>> I write this. Frankly, it'll still take months more of my time to complete,
>> but it was coming together.  Our website is a unique among most of the other
>> association websites out there because it was architected as a community
>> site where individual members or groups of members can be granted rights to
>> enhance the site, its content etc.. The new site work in development would
>> be a major visual facelift and also add new set of community features where
>> members can more easily add/remove content, articles, share documents,
>> pictures, videos and other knowledge base information. Does it need a
>> content reorg, absolutely. Are all the right features set up so that they're
>> easy to use? Not yet. Is the site searching up to google standards? No, but
>> leveraging google site search instead of database search is a feature I was
>> researching.
>> 
>> It comes down to Time, Skilled Resources and Motivation to make this happen,
>> or paying a third party to do it.
>> 
>> Time: I have huge demands on my time these days. As of last week, we haven't
>> sailed our boat *anywhere at all* in 2 full years now.  Literally, floated
>> it off the trailer in the spring, to the dock, and back to the trailer in
>> the fall. 1 hr on the engine in 2 years. Awesome...  What exactly should I
>> trade off so that I can devote get several hundred hours of my spare time to
>> make all these changes people think are so easy to make?
>> 
>> Skilled resources: So far, it's just me even though every year I plead with
>> the association members to volunteer. (Thank you SO MUCH David Prudden,
>> Karl, Sean, Warren who all stepped up to help with website content and
>> membership details!!!!) Those with the skill know it's really hard and could
>> easily consume every available bit of their free time. It's far easier to
>> hide in the wings (which had I to do over again in retrospect...). Those
>> without the skills simply ask "what's the holdup?", or hey, XYZ is doing it
>> so it must be easy and we're all just bozos stuck in the stone age. Thanks
>> for that.
>> 
>> Motivation: I have to say, repeating this discussion every year doesn't help
>> much either.
>> 
>> Money:  I'm a volunteer. Not just in time, but also money as I hosted these
>> services for the association for several years out of pocket on my own
>> servers when this wasn't as cheap or easy as it is now.  A decent low end
>> community portal can easily cost 20-75K to develop.  Or you can have a
>> pretty WordPress or Drupal blog for free but give up most forms of member
>> managed content we can support today.
>> 
>> Sorry to say, that to that end, I'll be porting everything we have over to
>> the new free hosting account for non-profits I set up for this association
>> and stepping aside from the C320 board when my term is up this fall.  I
>> stayed on an extra 2 years already, now it's really time to move on.
>> 
>> Maybe I'll get my boat finished in time to sail it over to the haulout
>> trailer for winter.  I'll try to make the transition process as painless as
>> possible.  The membership will be free to establish whatever online
>> resources the association chooses to afford, but be clear that someone will
>> be required to make a commitment as I have done to keep things running,
>> manage the security, membership, whatever is next. I've paid my dues, and
>> now it's time for the critics among us to step up to the plate.  It can be
>> made a lot better, I just don't have time to do it and by staying on, I'm an
>> impediment to forward progress.  I guess I'll keep my stone tools however.
>> 
>> I've found the discussion list to be immensely helpful over the years in its
>> various forms, and I'm sure it'll do just fine in whatever format the group
>> ends up adopting.
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> -Jeff Hare
>> #809 Woodbine II
>