[C320-list] Recent traffic

[Tim Fleming]

Fascinating discussion on boating, marina trends, economics, weather impact (climate change?) and  baby boom demographics.  (Question if Boomers are retiring is - will they wanna do the golf, RV, or boating or travel thing for a few of the early years as is typical?  Besides, all the worlds' central banks are pushing out easy money to stimulate purchases/biz.  In Denmark you get paid  (it's negative interest) for taking a home mortgage out.   In US I think we are seeing a transition and the absolute numbers of those retiring with disposable income to pursue life dreams like boating or traveling are huge and growing .  Or this is the Apocalypse and you'll need a vessel to live in water world  .... 

-Tim

> On Oct 29, 2015, at 2:43 PM, Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry Dick. In some sense, this is about boats. Not, particularly, about boating; but, certainly on the continuum of our interests to understand what is happening in the market and to our investment in our particular "hole in the water." Surely, a proper investigation cannot divorce the effects from the causes. Understanding the effects of changing demographics and society affects us all.
> 
> Now, back to boating.
> 
> Warren and Pattie Updike
> 1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick Walker [mailto:dickwalker at att.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 1:28 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Recent traffic
> 
> Can we keep this to boats!
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Walker
> WindWalker II
> C-320  #687 Yesr 2000 Model
> Coronado YC, CA
> 619.435.8986
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sulewski
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 10:24 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Recent traffic
> 
> Rick
> The tax info & projections you cited do not take into account the massive tax increases that are now being implemented as fees and other manipulations such a state and local sales taxes that have increased over the last several years and are impacting middle class families and consuming what was formerly a slice of precious discretionary income. For example, thanks to the socialist trend to "level the playing field" in the recent health care debacle, it is the middle class that has been most adversely impacted. Healthcare plan  deductibles have skyrocketed and annual premiums have also dramatically increased even with trimmed down benefits,  while lower cost healthcare alternative plans have disappeared while the cost of healthcare has not decreased as promised, but increased. What income that was once available to support the annual costs of boating or other expenses for many families is being diverted to fulfill an ideological liberal (progressive) political agenda. That economic experiment is tamping down incomes, job growth and impacting a variety of markets including recreation and even housing for younger families. Obamacare will be fully implemented in 2016 and an even greater economic shift will be reflected in another "middle class squeeze" when the higher tier level healthcare plans will be taxed (penalized) unless relief is crafted or a dramatic political shift takes place in November 2016. Recall that the "penalty" for not moving to a government required level healthcare plan is now enforced by the IRS, and that escalating annual penalty was ruled to be a tax by the Supreme Court. Also, the Brookings Institute data you provided does not reflect the full impact of the shifting and increasing tax burdens placed on the middle class by states and local governments that have also often been implemented as "fees" which adds up to a substantial impact, not to mention the trend to increase local property taxes and local income tax increases that take another bite out of the middle class to support state and local governments. There is a point when the economic impact of governments' excesses cannot be sustained. The problem with liberal economic policies is that eventually progressively liberal economies run out of "other people's money" to pay for all of the benefits promised to buy off compliant lower information voters who do not fully contribute to pay for  their "tax benefits as takers" from a government that eventually reduces the number of higher income "tax payers". Over time the "givers" incentives to earn is out stripped by the appetite to provide even more unearned benefits provided to "takers"  who are not just in need, but capable of contributing but are no longer incentivized to do so.....
> Rick 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sonntag
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 10:18 AM
> To: c320-list
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Recent traffic
> 
> I think the decline of sailing's popularity parallels that of golf. Both hobbies draw from a similar demographic, and that demographic is "aging out" of the sport without any significant replenishment from the younger generation. The reasons for the lack of replenishment are numerous, from the widely observed decline of the middle class to the fragmentation of the market for other competing leisure activities (there are now far more options including health clubs, higher participation of youth in scheduled activities, thousands of cable channels, millions of options for digital content of all types).
> 
> ​The claim that middle class economic woes are caused by ​growth in taxes in the US is not supported by the facts. US Federal taxes as a % of GDP are about where they were in the 1960s and 1970s, and have come down significantly since the late 1990s. And the economy in the late 1990s, when taxes as % of GDP were highest, is one that many would love to have today.
> See the "Totals" column at
> http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205 .
> 
> 
>