[C320-list] Keel Bolts

Tue Apr 4 18:21:03 PDT 2017

If I recall Gerry's comment correctly from way back, they shouldn't loosen up.  Now, if they keep loosening up, it could point to some failure inside the keel, but really, don't sweat it unless you're crossing the pacific.

-----Original Message-----
From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of pat reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:37 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Keel Bolts

all this stuff scares me.  what causes the keel bolts to loosen in the first place? 

    On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:22 PM, Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com> wrote:

 I have to agree with this assessment. We have had two hard groundings and are on our third rudder as a result. However, the keel is as tight as the day she was shipped. This is one case of if it ain't broke...

Best Regards,
Chris Burti
Commitment, #867

> On Mar 29, 2017, at 9:29 PM, Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com> wrote:
> 
> Interesting ideas, but don't over think the problem.  Basically you don't want the keel wiggling around and you don't want to break or yank the bolts out of their embedded plates.  If they are torqued anywhere close to the suggested range, you’re probably fine.  Our 2001 model has never had the keel bolts changed since I bought it new.  There are no visible crack lines where the keel is attached.  If the boat ever had the bolts torqued or they were properly tightened its perhaps not necessary to do that again unless you see signs that they need tightening.
> 
> Again, my opinion, but maybe don't change it unless you have evidence or reason to believe they aren't tight enough.  If they were tightened properly once and need tightening again, that might be a sign of a different problem.
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On 
> Behalf Of millers1 at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:22 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Keel Bolts
> 
> Interesting discussion.  I would think if it is an area that is highly infused with resin, there may be little crush, if any with the pre-loads being discussed..  I  have not looked closely to see if under the nut there are washers on backing plates.
> 
> 
> Art  #680
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Rauh <RaceAnnouncer at Verizon.net>
> To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 29, 2017 7:46 pm
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Keel Bolts
> 
> Art has a good point about the "crush point" of fiberglass.  When the 
> keel bolts are tightened, the ability of the fiberglass to withstand the force exerted by the backing plate is worth considering.
> 
> Trying to calculate the "crush point" of the fiberglass might be difficult because each boat was laid up by hand.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Your Mark  #408  1997
> City Island, NY
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On 
> Behalf Of Art Harden
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:09 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Keel Bolts
> 
> That is another possibility but I would be surprised if they are directly threaded into lead because it is so soft. I would venture that there is some threaded anchoring system in the keel. What I do plan to do is research the crush strength of fiberglass (AKA the hull). Generally, all of the charts are based on bolt strength an assumes you are working with metal to metal. With the fiberglass sandwiched in between, I could see one could over come the compressive strength and damage the hull. This is my research project for the spring. I sure would like to see the inside of a keel and how it all mounts together. Maybe Catalina will give us some pics if the process. I will see what I can find out and pass it on. 
> 
> Art Harden
> Tortuga Catalina 320
> 937-477-5544 (m)
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:38 AM, Graeme Clark <cg at skyflyer.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I was under the impression that the torque restriction was not simply about the breaking or deformation if the bolts but also about the risk of pulling them through the relatively soft lead keel into which they are cast?
>> 
>> Graeme
>> 
>> Sent from mobile: please excuse typos etc.!
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 00:37, Art Harden <artstree at aol.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There is a torque recommendation based on the diameter and metal grade of the bolt. I have not looked at the chart in years but will see what I can find. It is based on the breaking strength of the bolt and varies based on thread size as well. As someone mentioned a lot goes into determining the torque value. 
>>> 
>>> Art Harden
>>> Tortuga Catalina 320
>>> 937-477-5544 (m)
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 28, 2017, at 6:42 PM, Allan S Field <allan.field at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The Association at a CA Rendezvous did a factory tour in August 
>>>> 2004 with Gerry.  I wrote an article following the tour and then ran it by Gerry to proofread before I put it out to the membership.  My memory is that at the factory tour, Gerry told us something less than 235 pounds but corrected the article to say 235.
>>>> 
>>>> In March 2009 I sent Gerry an e-mail asking about lube to the threads but got no reply to that, at least that I can find.  Another member at that time (Lamar Desmond) had asked about the lube so I suggested he also call Catalina and then let me know what was said.  I don't think there was follow-up on that as I would have noted that with the toolbox loaner program literature.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Allan S. Field
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:24 PM
>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Keel Bolts
>>>> 
>>>> That is not something Gerry went into with me...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 03/28/17, Chris Burti<clburti at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> There is a different schedule for torquing dry threads and dressed
>>>> threads- higher torque for dry. This might be the reason for 
>>>> multiple numbers - different answers for different questions.
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Chris Burti
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Jeff Hare <[1]Catalina at thehares.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You might want to investigate the technique you'll use just a bit.
>>>> You may not get an accurate torque on the keel nuts unless you are 
>>>> dealing with clean threads and a nut that turns freely against a 
>>>> clean surface. Be sure it isn't frozen by loosening the target nut 
>>>> first and inspecting the threads and giving the threads a shot of 
>>>> drylube or Moly-kote or other anti-galling grease before going for 
>>>> the actual torque value. Then move on to the next. You don't want 
>>>> to risk galling the threads, so some lubrication might be important.
>>>> BUT I DON'T KNOW for sure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> These are my opinions, double check with someone who has a clue.
>>>> ??
>>>>> -Jeff Hare
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: C320-list 
>>>>> [[2]mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of Bryan Morton
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:43 PM
>>>>> To: [3]c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
>>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Keel Bolts
>>>>> 
>>>>> I had a follow up the keel bolt information from Allan Field from
>>>> March 24th. I contacted Catalina directly on the Keel Bolt torque.
>>>> Catalina told me the bolts should be torqued to 100 ft lbs. I was 
>>>> wondering where the 235 ft lbs number came from?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bryan 1994#32
>>>>> 
>>>>> "> Art - The Association, of which you are a member, has the 
>>>>> torque wrench (250 pounds), appropriately sized keel bolt socket 
>>>>> (1.5-inch,
>>>>> 6-point) and extension pieces available for loan through the 
>>>>> toolbox program. The boat needs to be on the hard with at least 
>>>>> 75% of the weight of the boat supported by the keel. The bolts get 
>>>>> torqued to
>>>> 235
>>>>> foot pounds. To access the program, log-on to the website and 
>>>>> submit
>>>> a
>>>>> request. You only pay the outbound and return shipping charges! -
>>>> Allan
>>>>> Field"
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> References
>>>> 
>>>> 1. mailto:Catalina at thehares.com
>>>> 2. mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>>> 3. mailto:c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 