[C320-list] Muffler leaks and drainage
Warren Updike
wupdike at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 16 12:24:45 PST 2017
Thanks, Danny and Jeff. This message just went into my Future Projects folder. At 22 going on 23 years, I guess it's time for a new muffler.
Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
-----Original Message-----
From: danny at jensenshouse.com [mailto:danny at jensenshouse.com]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:38 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Muffler leaks and drainage
Here are the details of my mixing elbow / aqua lift muffler replacement project.
I have about 500 hours on a 2004 C320 with a Yanmar 3GM30F-YEU. The mechanic recommended I change the mixing elbow in the next 12 months. The U Mixing Elbow inside was corroded at the point where the raw cool raw water mixes with exhaust. The riser appeared to be in good shape but the two parts looked to be bonded together and my mechanic told me to replace the entire assembly Elbow, riser and join. I read several owners accounts of failed mixing elbows and mufflers / muffler repairs. The lead time to get a muffler from Catalina was estimated to be 2 months. The general consensus was to replace the muffler after about 10 years. Mufflers seem to fail mostly near the screw holes in the corners. Some owners think this is due to vibration from the engine exhaust hose. I used Jeff Hares rule and decided to replace the muffler on my schedule instead of the boats schedule especially because of the 2 month lead time for the muffler. The cost of the muffler from Catalina was $374.
I contacted Ken Roy at Catalina and gave him my hull number and some pictures and dimensions of my existing muffler (it is for sale now). Ken asked for some more dimensions. Ken sent me back a picture of the muffler he proposed to make for me and requested payment. It took about 2 months total to get the muffler.
I ordered the gasket, mixing elbow, SS joint and riser exhaust from Bayshore Marine(see below). Next, I considered the muffler vibration issue. Some owners felt that a hump hose would isolate the vibration from the engine to the muffler. The existing wet exhaust hose connecting mixing elbow to muffler input was a 22 inch 2 in. id. I decided replace with 2 hose segments of more flexible trident corrugated exhaust hose joined together with an exhaust hump hose I purchased from Catalina Direct.
Here are the details. The procedure took about 3.5 hours including driving home once.
1. I turned off the raw water thru hull, disconnected the 3/8 hose connection at the elbow, the 4 riser exhaust bolts came off with no problem. Then I disconnected the elbow from the 2 in. exhaust hose. I used a radiator hose pick to remove the hoses. They came right off with no problem. Don’t sweat removing the hoses.
2. I took the old elbow assembly home where I used it for reference to create the new assembly using a vise. I don’t believe you can create the new assembly without the help of a vise and 2 large adjustable 15 in wrenches. Don’t try to make the new assembly on your boat! You will need to twist the 3/8 in input 180 degrees then you will need to create the exact same angle as the old elbow by threading the joint into the elbow and exhaust riser. I used high temperature anti seize on the joint threads before assembly.
3. I used a gasket scraper to easily remove the old gasket. Then I applied some high temp gasket seating material to both sides of the new gasket and bolted the elbow assembly to the motor.
4. I removed the 4 stainless screws securing the muffler to the boat and I removed the output exhaust hose from the old muffler using the radiator hose pick. The hoses come off the muffler without any problem. The muffler comes out of the boat without any problem.
5. I put the new muffler in place and connected the output exhaust hose without any issues. I found the screw holes on the new muffler did not match the screw holes on the muffler. I could get the 2 screw holes forward to line up but then the aft screw holes with not align with the existing holes. Access to the forward inboard screw is somewhat limited so you will want to match the forward inboard screw with the existing hole then use a drill motor to self tap new holes with the muffler in place. The existing self tapping screws were in good shape and I did not need to drill pilot holes, I just drove the screws into the glass with the muffler in place after I screwed down the forward screws. Apply a good amount of silicon grease to the muffler drain.
6. I used a sawzall to cut an 8 in and 13 in segment of corrugated exhaust hose then I joined them with a hump hose using double hose clamps on each side of the hump hose. Then I connected the hose to the mixing elbow and the input side of the muffler.
7. I turned on the thru hull and ran the engine. White fiberglass chips from the new muffler were spitting out the exhaust for a while. No leaks. The hump hose appeared to do the job limiting vibration. I left the rear engine cover off and took the boat out in open water and ran the motor up 3000 RPM. I went below and to my surprise I saw smoke coming from the exhaust riser side of the stainless steel joint nut! No water. It appeared that the joint was oozing and burning anti-seize. After about 10 minutes this smoking stopped. I’m assuming this is normal but it spooked me. I’m going to put a co2 monitor in the aft cabin to make sure I don’t have gas leaks.
Parts:
bayshore marine:
128370-13201 gasket $4.92
124070-13520 U mixing elbow $169.33
128370-13610 riser exhaust $130.39
104214-13580 joint $28.79
Note:
27233-250000 plug comes with 124070-13610
124070-13300 elbow 3/8 comes with 124070-13610
Parts from Catalina Yachts (K... at catalinayachts.com)
1 Muffler $374 plus Shipping
Parts from Catalina direct:
High Temp Anti-Seize Compound (#Z2858): 1
Item Total: $15.95
Exhaust Hump Hose 1-5/8"I.D X 6" (#Z2152): 1
Item Total: $31.49
Tools Harbor Freight
8" Radiator Hose Pick $3.99
Carbon/Gasket Scraper $2.99
High Temp Gasket seating compound
MMI Marine
TRI252-2004
TRIDENT CORRUGATED FLEX SAE J2006 MARINE WET EXHAUST HOSE (HARD WALL WITH WIRE) - 2 Feet $15.00
BUA70HSS36C
BUCK HOSE CLAMPS S/S FROM 1 13/16" TO 2 3/4" 4 $8.00
Danny Jensen
A BOA VIDA
Hull 972
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 15, 2017, at 5:01 PM, Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> You don't need the hose hump. I installed the flexible corrugated exhaust hose, Trident/Shields 252 series I think. So much more flexible and nice smooth interior wall. Takes the vibration out. It's quite expensive, like $20/ft, but you don't need very much at all. Certainly much cheaper than repairing a muffler.
>
> -Jeff Hare
> #809
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of jbrown5093 at yahoo.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 8:10 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Muffler leaks and drainage
>
> I think some have suggested using a hump hose in place of the standard one between the elbow and the muffler to reduce vibrations. Anyone done that?
>
> Jim Brown
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 14, 2017, at 11:28 PM, Ted Harrison <tharrison at innovations-plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> Greg, was the drain installed or do you have to do it yourself after?
>>
>> What was the cost, if appropriate to ask or send me the info
>> tharrison at innovations-plus.com
>>
>> Tks
>>
>> Ted Harrison
>>
>>> On Jan 14, 2017, at 8:35 PM, Greg Flanagan <greg.flanagan at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> Never. But only because my Yanmar has always started within a few seconds. You need the drain if you crank the engine for a number of minutes, or you will suck water into your engine-yes not good!
>>>
>>> Greg Flanagan
>>> Hoop Dancer #1076
>>> Sidney, BC
>>>
>>>> On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Dick Walker <dickwalker at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone ever used The drain? Out first boat was a C-30 '86. Same design
>>>>
>>>> On that boat I replaced I replaced the muffler with one off the
>>>> shelf from WM
>>>>
>>>> THE BIG DEAL is know how much you can crank the starter. Overfilling the tank would send water back up stream and would not be good
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dick Walker
>>>> 740 Olive Ave.
>>>> Coronado ,CA 92118
>>>> 619.435.8986
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 14, 2017, at 16:28, Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Warren et. al.-
>>>>>
>>>>> We just sent our muffler to CD in November. The cost of the
>>>>> muffler and drain valve which is sold separately and which you have to tap your self is
>>>>> almost $500 by the time you factor in shipping both ways. We should be
>>>>> receiving the muffler in the next month or so I suspect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Troy
>>>>> Hull #514
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:58 PM Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI a Chesapeake neighbor 320 #4 has replaced his Catalina muffler
>>>>>> with a Vetus "Water Lock" muffler. I checked with him a few times
>>>>>> over the years and he remains happy with it. There are other
>>>>>> brands out there. Also, some available on Amazon and marine online stores.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know the cost of a Catalina muffler. The production units
>>>>>> seem to run in the $400-700 range. I haven't really looked into it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warren and Pattie Updike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: pat reynolds [mailto:lorasalum at yahoo.com]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:08 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Muffler leaks and drainage
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if you have a muffler or muffler hose leak you should be getting
>>>>>> water in the bilge and you could actually see the leak when the engine is running.
>>>>>> It seems unusual that the drain cock would be open and you not get
>>>>>> water in the bilge, unless it was clogged. if you are not seeing water coming out
>>>>>> of the muffler or hose your smell is coming from elsewhere as far as
>>>>>> mufflers go if you got 20 years out of the muffler you are ahead
>>>>>> of the game. If it does leak don't bother trying to fix it, I did
>>>>>> this and it kept leaking. Get one from catalina but you have to
>>>>>> either send the original back to them as they have several molds
>>>>>> or have them send you photos of the ones they have made over the years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, January 13, 2017 1:49 PM, Graeme Clark
>>>>>> <cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last summer, after motoring any length of time, we would get a
>>>>>> diesel fuel smell in the aft cabin and - i noticed also - more
>>>>>> strongly under the galley sink.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know I don't have a fuel leak and I know that the exhaust system
>>>>>> is good as far as the muffler.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I therefore am assuming either a leak from the muffler or from the
>>>>>> exhaust hose itself, which is I think the original fit from 20
>>>>>> years ago and therefor probably perished!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I will be replacing the exhaust hose and have removed the
>>>>>> muffler to inspect at home. There is no immediate obvious sign of
>>>>>> a leak but it isn't under any pressure, of course. Any suggestions as how to best test it?
>>>>>> Even if it isn't leaking I thought I might take the opportunity
>>>>>> whilst out of the boat, to reinforce any weaker areas with glass
>>>>>> mat and resin. But what ARE the weaker areas? I know others here
>>>>>> have had problems with these mufflers on and off over the years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, there is what i assume to be a T-shaped drain tap on the
>>>>>> side of the muffler, but I was surprised to find it in the fully
>>>>>> unscrewed position (in other words fully counter clockwise). has
>>>>>> it vibrated open, is that the ‘leak' - or does this drain valve work in the reverse sense to ‘normal’?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance for any guidance
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graeme
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #366, 1996, Oskar, Falmouth UK
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ———————————————————
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I work irregular hours and often write emails late in the evening
>>>>>> and at weekends; that doesn’t mean I expect you to do the same;
>>>>>> reply when convenient!
>>>>
>
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