[C320-list] Battery Woes

[sail-ability at sympatico.ca]

The bilge pump should run with everything on OFF. The bilge breaker should be a 3 way switch. AUTO NEUTRAL MANUAL. On my boat with bty selector on OFF float switch activates the pump. Putting the bilge breaker on MANUAL activates the pump. Something is not right on your boat. The bilge pump should be wired directly to the btys for safety. 
JohnM
1999#574

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 18, 2020, at 11:19 PM, Dean Vermeire <dean at vermeire.us> wrote:
> 
> Our 320 has the original battery configuration.  It took me a while to find the correct electrical diagram, as there was a page missing from our owner's manual.
> 
> Anyway, there are two red cables connected to the positive terminals on each of the two batteries.  These should be connections to the battery selector switch and the battery charger.
> 
> With the battery selector set to off, the breaker by the battery switch for the distribution panel connection off, the A/C power off, the charger off, the breaker for the bilge pump off, and the breaker for the windlass off, I checked for any current on all four of the red cables.  On battery #1 (aft), one of the cables showed 0 mA, and the other showed 2.8 mA.  On battery #2 (forward), one cable showed 0 mA, and the other showed just over 200 mA.  I'm not sure what the stereo draws to maintain its memory, but 200 mA seems high to me.
> 
> Are these values normal?  It certainly does not seems like something that would fry two batteries with the charger on.
> 
> By the way, I also have found that the bilge pump only runs when battery #1 is connected.  That seems wrong to me.  Is this normal?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dean Vermeire
> 
> Moonstruck II (#847)
> 
> 
>> On 6/16/2020 1:40 PM, P.F. Ross wrote:
>> Hi Dean,
>> 
>> I water skied on Lake Perry decades ago.  I recall nice water and the flat
>> plains surrounding would seem to make for good sailing.
>> 
>> Seems like Jack's ideas were good ones since it seems like you have a
>> massively bad connection somewhere.  I was going to suggest how I have
>> checked for phantom current draws in both boats and automobiles but these
>> phantom draws are often in the fractions of amps rather than a large loss
>> that would cause what you are seeing.
>> 
>> FWIW, I simply remove the positive lead from a battery and use a typical
>> multimeter in series with that positive lead and the positive battery post
>> from where it was removed.  Typical multimeters have an "A" (for amps)
>> setting (usually 10A max on small meters) and you (again typically) need to
>> change the lead on the multimeter to attach to the "A" terminal.
>> 
>> For example, I once noticed a very slight spark when I was attaching a
>> positive lead to a battery with everything in the boat turned off.  Hmm,
>> thought I, there should not be any current flowing in this state.  Using
>> the multimeter as described above, I was able to read (can't recall
>> exactly) something less than 0.2 amp draw.  Opening the electrical panel
>> and removing circuit connections one at a time, I narrowed it down to the
>> stereo.  Of course!  This stereo had a hot feed to store clock and tuning
>> info.  I had installed the stereo myself years before and had forgotten
>> about this lead.
>> 
>> While this situation was not really causing a problem, it just bugged me at
>> first to know some current was flowing when I thought there should be none.
>> 
>> This all just FYI, perhaps it will help someone down the line.
>> 
>> Frank Ross
>> Beta Wave #206
>> Naples, FL
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:00 AM Dean Vermeire <dean at vermeire.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good info, Jack.  Much appreciated!
>>> 
>>> Dean
>>> 
>>>> On 6/16/2020 10:53 AM, Jack Brennan wrote:
>>>> Hi Dean:
>>>> 
>>>> If it is your system, it is in the ground cable. Make sure you didn’t
>>> forget to hook up one of the ground cables and that all of them are
>>> securely tightened.
>>>> In addition, there is a ground buss behind the circuit breaker panel.
>>> (Black wires) Poke around there with the 110 volt off, for obvious reasons,
>>> and make sure the large cable that runs from the buss back to the batteries
>>> is securely tightened.
>>>> You could charge the batteries for several hours with an auto store
>>> charger (only while you’re there and watching) and your boat electrics
>>> turned off. Then put a load on the batteries with a 12-volt fan or
>>> something similar connected directly to the batteries, not through the boat
>>> system.
>>>>   If the voltage drops to 11 or so, it’s the batteries. If the batteries
>>> keep their charge, it’s the ground in your boat system.
>>>> My 320 was a repo that had been sabotaged somewhere along the way. One
>>> of the tricks was loosening the main ground cable at the buss.  I went on a
>>> short trip, and all of the electrical went out, with the system showing 11
>>> volts or so. (The diesel and start battery were wired separately and worked
>>> fine.)
>>>> I accidentally found the loose screw, tightened it and charged the
>>> batteries. Everything was fine after that.
>>>> Jack Brennan
>>>> Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
>>>> Tierra Verde, Fl.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>> 
>>>> From: Dean Vermeire
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:44 AM
>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Battery Woes
>>>> 
>>>> Ahoy,
>>>> 
>>>> I recently had two new batteries installed.  I will say up front that
>>>> they are not the greatest batteries or brand (Continental
>>>> maintenance-free 4Ds), but there are not as many choices here in
>>>> Kansas.  I also mostly daysail, and, if I do stay on the boat overnight,
>>>> I stay in the marina.  So, I basically need to start the engine and be
>>>> able to run the bilge pump, refrigerator, stereo, and instruments.
>>>> 
>>>> The first time I went out to the boat after installing the batteries
>>>> (about 4 days), the engine would not turn over.  I shut everything off
>>>> to let the batteries charge as much as possible for about 15 minutes.
>>>> When I tried again, I was able to start the engine.  I went sailing and
>>>> left the engine running the whole time.
>>>> 
>>>> Two days later, I went back out to the boat and took along a volt meter
>>>> and a battery tester.  With the charger on, I was seeing about 13.4
>>>> volts to the terminals.  I turned off the charger and waited 30
>>>> minutes.  When I hooked up the tester, it showed both batteries as bad
>>>> (less than 40% of the capacity).  I tried to start the engine, but it
>>>> would not turn over.  The voltage of both batteries then showed around
>>>> 11 volts.
>>>> 
>>>> So, in all likelihood I got two bad batteries.  But, what are the
>>> chances?
>>>> My real question to all of you battery wizards out there is what in my
>>>> wiring could kill two batteries?  I get the idea that something could
>>>> run them down, but kill them?
>>>> 
>>>> Our boat is #847, a 2001, with the original 2-battery configuration.
>>>> The batteries are dual-purpose, rated for 1200 CCA.  It was about 80
>>>> degrees when I tested.  The boat was out of the water for 18 months
>>>> before replacing the batteries.
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Dean Vermeire
>>>> 
>>>> Moonstruck II (#847)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>