[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 3716, Issue 1
chuters
upwego at yahoo.com
Sun May 10 13:20:52 PDT 2020
Rebeding Stanchions
I just re-bedded the three stanchions on the starboard side. Holes were already cut into the wire channel behind the teak trim. I removed the bottom channel covers. This allowed better all around access to the fasteners holding the stanchions to the topsides. The large stud is 1/2” with a nut requiring a 3/4 inch wrench. Can’t recall exactly but I believe the screws for the 2 smaller diameter inboard fasteners were 5/16” and removed the nut with a 1/2” wrench. I removed the the inboard fasteners first by clamping onto the nut, through the pre-cut hole, with a small long nosed vise grip and backing the screws out from on deck. Removing the inboard fasteners first allowed a greater turning radius when using a straight 3/4” open end wrench, through the precut hole, to turn the larger nut. I’m not sure, but it looked like to me, that when the hull and deck were assembled, the stanchions may have already been installed on the deck as here was a lot of excess 5200, or whatever adhesive they used, around the larger nut that I couldn’t get enough of a grip with the wrench to turn the nut. Had to dremmel away some of the excess to before I could fit the wrench on the nut. Once the nut was loosened I could get my fingers on it and freely turn it. Due to the remaining excess adhesive, to completely unthread the nut, the stanchion had to be lifted upward so I could spin the nut off the end of the stud. I tethered the stanchion to the boat to make sure it didn’t go over the side. I used butyl tape I purchased from marinehowto.com for rebeding. To reinstall the stanchion, enough of the stud threads had to be inserted in the hole, add the washers, hold the nut and turn it with two fingers simultaneously to get the nut started. In fact, the first mate had to perform this task because her hands were smaller and fit into the precut opening. Removal and replacement of the double leg stanchion was more of a hassle then the mid and forward stanchions. Three months post rebeding, the starboard side stanchions have been leak free. Have not done the port side yet, they aren’t leaking.
Jack
#441 (1997)
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
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Today's Topics:
1. Tools to Rebed Stanchions (Dave Hupe)
2. Re: Fuel Tank Replacement (David Veeneman)
3. Re: Fuel Tank Replacement (Mark Cole)
4. Re: Fuel Tank Replacement (Mark Cole)
5. Re: Fuel Injector or Injector Pump? (Graeme Clark)
6. Re: Fuel Injector or Injector Pump? (Troy Dunn)
7. Re: Fuel Injector or Injector Pump? (Bob Borelli)
8. Re: Fuel Injector or Injector Pump? (Jeff Smith)
9. Re: Fuel Injector or Injector Pump? (Chris Burti)
10. Re: Boom Repairs for C320 (HOLLY DAVIS)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 22:48:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dave Hupe <hoopdtwo at yahoo.com>
To: "c320-list at lists.catalina320.com"
<c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: [C320-list] Tools to Rebed Stanchions
Message-ID: <1176602228.807125.1589064529264 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
There have been several very good guides I've read from other owners (particularly Warren Updike and Herb Creech) about how to go about rebedding stanchions. Due to looseness and leaks, I'm faced with probably rebedding both of my gate stanchions (the ones on the port and starboard sides of the cockpit with double legs) .?
In order to be able to reach up from underneath and turn the large nuts under the stanchions,?"crow foot"? wrenches have been recommended?that can be used at 90 degree angles off of ratchet extensions from down in the cabin along the outer wall sides.? Warren recommended these inexpensive crow foot wrenches from Harbor Freight for the job??https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=crow%20foot%20wrench%20set? ?
Alternatively, other owners have removed the top teak covers at the cabin sides and then?cut openings through the fiberglass wiring channels beneath .? This allowed them to reach with open box wrenches from the sides through these openings directly at the nuts.? Reportedly cutting into the wiring channels does not compromise the structural integrity.? You only need to be careful about wiring running along the channels.? The teak will cover these holes (if not made too large) after completing the rebedding.
My question ...... in order to buy the correct set of tools, can anyone tell me the size of the nuts (particularly the largest on the main support)?? Are they SAE or metric???
Any and all other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks !
Dave Hupe
1994 C320 (#32) "Mayan Sun"
Holland, MI
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 16:39:39 -0700
From: David Veeneman <davidv at veeneman.com>
To: C320 Assn Forum <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Tank Replacement
Message-ID: <C0148BD2-A96B-459E-BBAE-19E684CF965C at veeneman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I bought a new Ezell replace my old fuel tank. The old tank has been removed, and the new tank is in place. There?s only one hitch.
My new tank arrived with the fuel pickup and return fittings pointing in the wrong direction. They appear to be screwed into a threaded base that is welded to the tank. I need to give the fittings a quarter to a half-turn each. I tried turning them with a crescent wrench, but they?re on pretty tight and won?t budge.
Before I use a hammer to tap them loose, I?m hoping to verify with somebody who has put in an Ezell tank that the pickup and return fittings on the tank can, in fact, be turned. I?d be surprised if they couldn?t, but I?m a ?measure twice, cut once? kind of guy. So, if you have installed an Ezell tank, can you tell me if the fuel pickup and return are able to be turned; i.e., unscrewed.
Thanks for your help!
--
David Veeneman
davidv at veeneman.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 17:59:57 -0700
From: Mark Cole <boatnboot at me.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Tank Replacement
Message-ID: <E1F647F4-6863-43C7-A75F-37F6E5C50C8D at me.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, David;
I installed a new Ezell tank a couple years ago and I did have to turn the fittings a quarter turn. I used an open end wrench and they turned without too much effort.
Mark Cole, Fiddler?s Green #8
Sent from Mark's iPhone
Smooth seas never made a good sailor.
> On May 9, 2020, at 4:39 PM, David Veeneman <davidv at veeneman.com> wrote:
>
> ?I bought a new Ezell replace my old fuel tank. The old tank has been removed, and the new tank is in place. There?s only one hitch.
>
> My new tank arrived with the fuel pickup and return fittings pointing in the wrong direction. They appear to be screwed into a threaded base that is welded to the tank. I need to give the fittings a quarter to a half-turn each. I tried turning them with a crescent wrench, but they?re on pretty tight and won?t budge.
>
> Before I use a hammer to tap them loose, I?m hoping to verify with somebody who has put in an Ezell tank that the pickup and return fittings on the tank can, in fact, be turned. I?d be surprised if they couldn?t, but I?m a ?measure twice, cut once? kind of guy. So, if you have installed an Ezell tank, can you tell me if the fuel pickup and return are able to be turned; i.e., unscrewed.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> --
> David Veeneman
> davidv at veeneman.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 18:04:42 -0700
From: Mark Cole <boatnboot at me.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Tank Replacement
Message-ID: <8B9F0219-0CC2-411B-B557-EFC1C255F31C at me.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Also, the tech guy at Ezell is very helpful if you want to touch bases with him.
Mark
Sent from Mark's iPhone
Smooth seas never made a good sailor.
> On May 9, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Mark Cole <boatnboot at me.com> wrote:
>
> ?Hi, David;
>
> I installed a new Ezell tank a couple years ago and I did have to turn the fittings a quarter turn. I used an open end wrench and they turned without too much effort.
>
> Mark Cole, Fiddler?s Green #8
> Sent from Mark's iPhone
> Smooth seas never made a good sailor.
>
>> On May 9, 2020, at 4:39 PM, David Veeneman <davidv at veeneman.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?I bought a new Ezell replace my old fuel tank. The old tank has been removed, and the new tank is in place. There?s only one hitch.
>>
>> My new tank arrived with the fuel pickup and return fittings pointing in the wrong direction. They appear to be screwed into a threaded base that is welded to the tank. I need to give the fittings a quarter to a half-turn each. I tried turning them with a crescent wrench, but they?re on pretty tight and won?t budge.
>>
>> Before I use a hammer to tap them loose, I?m hoping to verify with somebody who has put in an Ezell tank that the pickup and return fittings on the tank can, in fact, be turned. I?d be surprised if they couldn?t, but I?m a ?measure twice, cut once? kind of guy. So, if you have installed an Ezell tank, can you tell me if the fuel pickup and return are able to be turned; i.e., unscrewed.
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>> --
>> David Veeneman
>> davidv at veeneman.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:53:13 +0100
From: Graeme Clark <cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
To: Catalina list <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Message-ID: <FD27BB46-767F-4615-AE2B-10E945397054 at skyflyer.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I don't know the M30 as our C320 is fitted with a Yanmar. But my Yanmar will fire, and even sometimes start, on two cylinders. (rough as hell!)
It seems an extraordinary coincidence that all three injectors or all three sets of valves on your M30 ( i assume its 3 cylinder?) fail at the same time.
The problem must surely lie somewhere common to all cylinders
Just a thought
Graeme
1996 #366
> On 9 May 2020, at 18:50, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> You are correct about the ?leak off? lines, now that I think about it. I am not real keen on spraying diesel throughout the boat anyway, so maybe I will clean and reinstall them. If that does not work, then I do have a rebuild shop that offered to test them for free if I leave them for a few days. Since my boat is four hours away, that?s a lot of down time (maybe I can fix my anchor light and everything other thing other than the motor that also needs attention) to wait for the test.
>
> When I say good flow at the injector, I had removed the ?leak off? line and then broke loose the next 11/16? nut on the injector. At that point, fuel is flowing well. Maybe that is before the fuel shutoff, though. I can clearly see the fuel shutoff cable moving with the lever actuated (or my hand).
>
> Thanks for the good advice about the shims. I do have the manual and I am trying to make some notes that will be easy-to-follow.
>
> Jeff
>
> ?94, #121
>
>> On May 9, 2020, at 12:21 PM, <mseyler at cox.net> <mseyler at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I have a 1995 (No. 232) with an M30. While I worked on cars a bit in my college days, I had no experience whatsoever with diesels until I bought my C320. But I am finding that owning a 25 year old diesel engine is an education in itself.
>>
>> While the injectors can be checked out of the engine, you won't be able to do it easily with the existing fuel lines from the pump to the injectors, because they are solid lines, and bent to an exact shape. Also, the "leak off" lines won't be in place with the injector out of position, and may prevent you from getting the right pressure on the injector. However, I was able to pull the injectors from my M30 and take them to a diesel injection shop, who tested, and ultimately rebuilt them. (You want to make sure that the injectors "pop" at the right pressure, and spray a fine mist in a uniform pattern.) The shop didn't charge me to check the injectors, and charged me about the same for the rebuild as the rebuilt injectors from Parts4Engines. If you do remove the injectors, make sure you get replacements for the copper "gaskets" that go between the injector and the engine. If you don't have one, I recommend downloading the Perkins manual from the C320 website, as it will show y
ou the parts in an exploded view.
>>
>> One thing I'm not sure I'm understanding is your statement that "when I open the injectors and operate the Racor bleed pump, I get good flow." I may be misunderstanding what you are describing, but I don't think the pressure from the pump on the Racor should be getting past the injector pump except at the moment when fuel should be injected to each cylinder. If it is, I'd suspect the seals in the injector pump. And if the flow you are describing is where the line from the fuel filter goes into the injector pump, I think that is before point where the effect of the kill valve would apply.
>>
>> If you do decide to have the injector pump rebuilt, be careful to keep track of the little shims that go between the injector pump and the engine block. That's how injection timing is controlled on the M30, and if you don't put the same shims back when you put the pump back in, it will mess up the timing.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> Mark Seyler
>> S/V Reality
>> C320 No. 232
>> New Orleans, LA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of Jeff Smith
>> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 10:24 AM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
>>
>> Clay and Bob,
>>
>> Thanks for the additional information. I am thinking maybe I will pull the injectors and clean them, and then put a little bit of oil in the cylinder before I re-assemble. Then we will see what happens.
>>
>> Jeff
>> ?94, #121
>>
>>> On May 9, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Clay Carter <fclaycarter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeff:
>>>
>>> I am FAR from an engine mechanic with little experience, but I can share some insight on my 1995 with Perkins M30. Previous owner WAS a mechanical type. He said that at some point the engine developed problems and would not run. He had fuel removed, tank cleaned and inspection port added. Also replaced all external fuel lines and filters. Problem persisted. He and his wife took a day, removed and cleaned all injectors. Replaced anything external fuel related that wasn?t expensive. (Sorry I cant offer more specifics, but it was related to the injectors and lines). Anything not replaced was removed and deep cleaned. He said it was quite the job for them but he had experience with this sort of projects. Problem solved ever since. I?ve about 1700 hours on her and she runs well.
>>>
>>> Clay Carter
>>> We?ll Sea
>>> 225
>>> Alamitos Bay, CA
>>>
>>>> On May 9, 2020, at 5:04 AM, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Joe (not John),
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure. The problem started last year and I suspected bad fuel. I have completely drained the tank and lines and changed filters, but the problems persist. I would expect incorrect valve lash to show loss of power, etc., but I am not sure about hard starting.
>>>>
>>>> Several people have mentioned the kill switch. Correct me if I am wrong but, if the kill switch was not acting properly (stuck in the engaged position), then I should not get fuel at the injectors. However, when I open the injectors and operate the Racor bleed pump, I get good flow.
>>>>
>>>> I talked to an injector pump rebuild guy that said I can remove each injector, attach re-attach them to the fuel line outside of the motor, and turn it over (be careful to stay well clear). If I see a fine spray, then I at least know the injectors are working. I will check back and let you guys know when it is solved.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jeff Smith
>>>> ?94, #121
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Joe Jablonowski <appleton1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> When was the last time the valves were adjusted?- Joe Jablonowski
>>>>> C320 #103 Perkins M30
>>>>>
>>>>> ====================================
>>>>> On Friday, May 8, 2020, 06:31:03 PM EDT, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. We try to push the lever as far as it would go, but that does not mean the valve is working. Next time over I will check that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 4:55 PM, sail-ability at sympatico.ca wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1200hr is just about broke in for those engines, nowhere?s near time 4 a rebuild. If you have a diesel shop near you, you can take them out and have them tested. $60 is awfully cheap for an injector, I got mine tested for $40 each!
>>>>>> You might check and see that the fuel cutoff is working correctly
>>>>>> ie when you push in the handle the valve is opening as it should.
>>>>>> Weird JohnM
>>>>>> 1999#574
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New problem (of course) on my Perkins M30. Hump hose and everything is installed. Went to start - no joy! Some history - I sucked all of the diesel out in the fall and refilled with brand new diesel (from a gas station, not the marina). I included the appropriate additives. There is no water in the Racor bowl and it comes out clear, so I do not suspect bad fuel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It turns over fine (I replaced the starter battery last year). I get good fuel at both bleeding points (the fuel filter and the injector pump). When I take the lines loose at the injectors and open the injectors themselves, I get good flow from the Racor hand pump. When I crack the lines at the top of the injector and turn the motor over, I get good fuel flow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First and foremost, I am not a diesel mechanic, so I have exhausted my abilities. However, I am guessing it is either the injector(s) or the injector pump. I know I am getting good flow at the injector, so the pump is doing some portion of its job, but maybe not enough to put the fuel under high pressure? Maybe the injectors need to be replaced? I am now grasping at straws. Injectors are $60 a piece from Parts4Engines. The pump rebuild is between $700 and $1,000. My current plan is to replace injectors first and assess. Then pump rebuild if needed. Is there something else I am missing? We checked to make sure the fuel system kill plunger is not activated. I think it will cost me $100 an hour to have someone help me check, which is why I thought I might as well replace the injectors under the assumption that injectors and pumps have a limited life. (1,200 hours on the motor).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff Smith
>>>>>>> S/V Sailmates
>>>>>>> '94, #121
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 07:55:12 -0400
From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Message-ID:
<CA+rGV8ajf+D+vWVcVN8Mth5NpE2z7JUowOysE_wp8WZvBCjFfg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Graeme-
That's exactly what I?ve been scratching my head about. Not firing at all
is an air, fuel, or ignition problem upstream of the injectors is my guess
too. I don't know if the fuel cut out affects the high speed pump, i
would have said no. The only downstream problem I can think of is either
insufficient compression to get to ignition and/or something seriously
wrong with the cylinder head.
Is it possible the decompression levers could be thrown but not far enough
to have the engine making that obvious sewing machine sound? Does the M30
have decompression levers? Dunno.
It's going to be very interesting to hear what this turns out to be....
Troy
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 13:21:03 +0000
From: Bob Borelli <cassattc22 at hotmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Message-ID:
<DM5PR06MB32928FAC7FCCF63155207854CFA00 at DM5PR06MB3292.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
The Perkins M30 manual don't mention decompression levers.
I do not believe they are on the M30.
1. Operating Instructions
2. Operation & Maintenance Manual
3. 100 Series Work Shop Manual
4. Parts Manual
Now when you say 'high speed pump' do you mean the fuel injection pump?
You have tested the lift pump because there is fuel at the injectors when you bleed air from the system.
Now I know this sounds dopey but if the diesel needs speed to start, and the control throttle is forward, has the throttle lever on the engine moved forward?
If the cable does not advance the lever to governor & injection pump, not turning off fast enough.
Quick visual check & the stop lever also.
Thinking aloud: If no work was done to effect timing, why would it be timing? How to test?
Could it be lift pump diaphragm not pumping sufficient fuel to injection pump? How to test?
________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:55 AM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Graeme-
That's exactly what I?ve been scratching my head about. Not firing at all
is an air, fuel, or ignition problem upstream of the injectors is my guess
too. I don't know if the fuel cut out affects the high speed pump, i
would have said no. The only downstream problem I can think of is either
insufficient compression to get to ignition and/or something seriously
wrong with the cylinder head.
Is it possible the decompression levers could be thrown but not far enough
to have the engine making that obvious sewing machine sound? Does the M30
have decompression levers? Dunno.
It's going to be very interesting to hear what this turns out to be....
Troy
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:33:28 -0400
From: Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com>
To: "C320-List at catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Message-ID:
<BY5PR02MB6659BA9DB539ED0B56EB0260DAA00 at BY5PR02MB6659.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Troy/Graeme/Bob,
I should say that every once in awhile, it acts like it will fire. But generally, I can grind the starter for 10 or 15 seconds (thru-hull closed) and it just turns over. I had this problem starting in the summer of last year. I eventually paid a mechanic to come help me bleed the system so I could winterize it in December. We got it bled and it started and ran then. I ran it for 5 or 10 minutes and it had that familiar Perkins 3-cylinder rattle (at idle) that always feels like it is going to come through the floorboard. It sat until this week (I was waiting on exhaust hoses before I could de-winterize) and the same symptoms reoccurred. It had not been touched since it ran in December, and the fuel was fresh as of November with an the proper additives. It did not make sense to me that it could be air in the fuel, because I did not mess with a fitting after it ran in December. I am not inclined to think compression or timing, because there was no symptoms prior to the issue.
I thought about putting an electric lift pump on to aid with bleeding. I could do that now and then run the electric lift pump to see if that is the issue. I am not sure how to test the lift pump. Maybe open the bleed screw on the injector pump and operate the lift pump handle. If I am getting insufficient flow from the lift pump, but good flow with the Racor pump, that could be a sign the diaphragm is bad? Although, my buddy helping me said he did see fuel at the ?leak by? caps on the injectors when I turned the engine over. That could be residual fuel from when I actuated the Racor pump handle, though.
Perplexing for sure.
Thanks to all for suggestions. I will close the loop when I get it solved.
Jeff
> On May 10, 2020, at 9:21 AM, Bob Borelli <cassattc22 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Perkins M30 manual don't mention decompression levers.
> I do not believe they are on the M30.
>
> 1. Operating Instructions
> 2. Operation & Maintenance Manual
> 3. 100 Series Work Shop Manual
> 4. Parts Manual
>
> Now when you say 'high speed pump' do you mean the fuel injection pump?
>
> You have tested the lift pump because there is fuel at the injectors when you bleed air from the system.
>
> Now I know this sounds dopey but if the diesel needs speed to start, and the control throttle is forward, has the throttle lever on the engine moved forward?
> If the cable does not advance the lever to governor & injection pump, not turning off fast enough.
> Quick visual check & the stop lever also.
>
> Thinking aloud: If no work was done to effect timing, why would it be timing? How to test?
> Could it be lift pump diaphragm not pumping sufficient fuel to injection pump? How to test?
>
> ________________________________
> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:55 AM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
>
> Graeme-
>
> That's exactly what I?ve been scratching my head about. Not firing at all
> is an air, fuel, or ignition problem upstream of the injectors is my guess
> too. I don't know if the fuel cut out affects the high speed pump, i
> would have said no. The only downstream problem I can think of is either
> insufficient compression to get to ignition and/or something seriously
> wrong with the cylinder head.
>
> Is it possible the decompression levers could be thrown but not far enough
> to have the engine making that obvious sewing machine sound? Does the M30
> have decompression levers? Dunno.
>
> It's going to be very interesting to hear what this turns out to be....
>
> Troy
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:20:18 -0400
From: Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Message-ID: <5eb81bb3.1c69fb81.1d525.065a at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a somewhat similar issue with our 2001 Yanmar (for a period of time this was a common problem for our era D-320?s)? there are two reasonably common issues for these models that have the same symptom, but different cause. If the engine has not run in a couple of weeks, air gets in the system and if it starts it will cut off when you apply throttle.
1. Catalina installed a check valve in the diesel fuel return line for a period of time and after a while the valve would slowly allow air into the fuel system, only a problem if the engine is run infrequently. Proper repair is to remove the check valve per Yanmar,
2. Second issue is that there is a nickel metal crush washer at the bleed screw just before the injectors. If this gets tightened too much it will allow air into the fuel system, only a problem if the engine is run infrequently. Proper repair is to replace the washer.
I don?t know which of these is the source of my problem, because a few strokes on the Racor pump solves the problem as long as I run the engine frequently.
I don?t have a clue if your problem has a similar cause, but try stroking the Racor pump a half a dozen times and see if your Perkins starts? if so you probably have an air leak somewhere.
Regards,
Chris Burti
Commitment, #867
Farmville, NC
From: Jeff Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:33 AM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
Troy/Graeme/Bob,
I should say that every once in awhile, it acts like it will fire. But generally, I can grind the starter for 10 or 15 seconds (thru-hull closed) and it just turns over. I had this problem starting in the summer of last year. I eventually paid a mechanic to come help me bleed the system so I could winterize it in December. We got it bled and it started and ran then. I ran it for 5 or 10 minutes and it had that familiar Perkins 3-cylinder rattle (at idle) that always feels like it is going to come through the floorboard. It sat until this week (I was waiting on exhaust hoses before I could de-winterize) and the same symptoms reoccurred. It had not been touched since it ran in December, and the fuel was fresh as of November with an the proper additives. It did not make sense to me that it could be air in the fuel, because I did not mess with a fitting after it ran in December. I am not inclined to think compression or timing, because there was no symptoms prior to the issue.
I thought about putting an electric lift pump on to aid with bleeding. I could do that now and then run the electric lift pump to see if that is the issue. I am not sure how to test the lift pump. Maybe open the bleed screw on the injector pump and operate the lift pump handle. If I am getting insufficient flow from the lift pump, but good flow with the Racor pump, that could be a sign the diaphragm is bad? Although, my buddy helping me said he did see fuel at the ?leak by? caps on the injectors when I turned the engine over. That could be residual fuel from when I actuated the Racor pump handle, though.
Perplexing for sure.
Thanks to all for suggestions. I will close the loop when I get it solved.
Jeff
> On May 10, 2020, at 9:21 AM, Bob Borelli <cassattc22 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Perkins M30 manual don't mention decompression levers.
> I do not believe they are on the M30.
>
> 1. Operating Instructions
> 2. Operation & Maintenance Manual
> 3. 100 Series Work Shop Manual
> 4. Parts Manual
>
> Now when you say 'high speed pump' do you mean the fuel injection pump?
>
> You have tested the lift pump because there is fuel at the injectors when you bleed air from the system.
>
> Now I know this sounds dopey but if the diesel needs speed to start, and the control throttle is forward, has the throttle lever on the engine moved forward?
> If the cable does not advance the lever to governor & injection pump, not turning off fast enough.
> Quick visual check & the stop lever also.
>
> Thinking aloud: If no work was done to effect timing, why would it be timing? How to test?
> Could it be lift pump diaphragm not pumping sufficient fuel to injection pump? How to test?
>
> ________________________________
> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:55 AM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
>
> Graeme-
>
> That's exactly what I?ve been scratching my head about. Not firing at all
> is an air, fuel, or ignition problem upstream of the injectors is my guess
> too. I don't know if the fuel cut out affects the high speed pump, i
> would have said no. The only downstream problem I can think of is either
> insufficient compression to get to ignition and/or something seriously
> wrong with the cylinder head.
>
> Is it possible the decompression levers could be thrown but not far enough
> to have the engine making that obvious sewing machine sound? Does the M30
> have decompression levers? Dunno.
>
> It's going to be very interesting to hear what this turns out to be....
>
> Troy
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:13:37 -0700
From: HOLLY DAVIS <hdavis787 at hotmail.com>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Boom Repairs for C320
Message-ID:
<VI1PR10MB2798FC3099DA38A0B7E5CD29F6A00 at VI1PR10MB2798.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Peter,
I will be back down to my boat today and let you know. In the meantime, I found this diagram. Is this the one you have?
Holly
> On May 8, 2020, at 11:21 AM, nibj <nibj at mac.com> wrote:
>
> Holly
> When I setup our reefing lines, I used the diagram from this website which seemed appropriate for our age boat. But when we tried to use it the reefing hook pulled the slugs on the mast down hard against the stop. I was worried that if I cranked down hard on the reefing line I might rip out the slugs of the sail. So we sailed with a very loose foot!
>
> So I think our reefing lines are wrong (or our sail is not right). Maybe I should start a new thread, but I wonder if you could describe how your reefing lines run near the mast?
>
> Thanks
> Peter
>
> Tangled #226
End of C320-list Digest, Vol 3716, Issue 1
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