[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4058, Issue 1
upwego at yahoo.com
upwego at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 18 11:18:45 PDT 2021
Our hull #442 is located in east central Florida and is equipped with a 12,500 btu AC. The unit is installed in the cockpit port lazaret and has one supply vent into the aft cabin and one supply and one return vent in the main cabin located just above the fridge. The AC raw water inlet is located adjacent to the engine raw water inlet aft of the transmission. The AC raw water pump and filter is just aft with a short run to the inlet of the AC in the port lazaret. The raw water overboard line is a short run from AC through the port hull. A condensate line is led to the bilge.
Starting the AC from a boat closed up configuration, mid-day, during the summer in Florida, the cabin top and hull are so thermally heat loaded the interior of the boat ranges from 96-98 degrees and the surrounding water typically at 82-85 degrees, “Fast Cool” does not come into play.
For a mid-day AC start, all the cabin top hatches are opened to vent the hot air from the cabin. After several minutes, the forward hatch and bi-fold doors are closed on the v-berth and finally the main cabin hatch is closed, the sliding hatch is slid to the closed position, no hatch boards installed, it will take a few hours to cool the interior space of the main cabin down to the low to mid 80’s. The aft cabin cools down much quicker and runs about 6-7 degrees cooler then the main cabin as that section of the boat is shaded by the Bimini.
For an 8-9am AC start, closing the boat up with v-berth isolated, hatch boards installed, within a few hours the interior space of the main cabin will be cooled to 73 degrees, and stay that way all day.
For a post-sail, sunset, to night fall, AC start, closing the boat up with v-berth isolated, hatch boards removed, boat cools down to mid to high 70’s after a few hours. Installing hatch boards later in the evening prior to bed, boat is still cooling down. After midnight, aft cabin feels like a meat locker, main cabin is very comfortable, will open v-berth for more even cooling throughout.
Just recently had the AC inspect by a certified marine AC technician. The AC is now 25 years old and it is performing nominally. IMHO, the 12,000 btu unit is insufficient for cooling the C320 during the spring and summer months in central and southern Florida. For northern latitudes the 12,000 btu unit might be more then adequate. Many variables to consider, ambient air and water temp for local climate, use, etc, etc.
When the time comes, we’ll R&R the 12,000 unit with a 16,000 or 16,500 btu AC. May still have to vent boat in summer months but larger unit should cool boat down more quickly. A new, 16k+ unit will have a smaller foot print then the existing 12.5k unit and fit in the same, and run more quietly then existing unit and not much more cost wise.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
On Saturday, July 17, 2021, 4:01 PM, c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com wrote:
Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Seacock question / AC Install (Onat Dogruer)
2. Side Window Leak (Ian Neale)
3. Re: Seacock question / AC Install (Troy Dunn)
4. Re: Seacock question / AC Install (Jack Brennan)
5. Re: Seacock question / AC Install (Troy Dunn)
6. Re: Seacock question / AC Install (Jack Brennan)
7. Re: Seacock question / AC Install (Troy Dunn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:40:31 -0400
From: Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Message-ID:
<CAKv20Dr2sujJyqQ8vyAyOHKXn5Mf9B5Va+JJDm6VrsYG=+YDtg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Jack,
It is a very user specific choice and depends on how we enjoy our boats &
being on the water. Having said that, some installers oversell the BTU
because in the eyes of their customer, if they undersize the A/C the
customer may be disappointed... so they oversell to be on the safe side
with the view that when you get to your boat, you turn on the A/C and it
will cool it down in 15 min or less ('fast cool'). What this does is,
creating a very rough work environment for the A/C compressor. A/C
Compressors are much more efficient if they can cycle up and down gradually
in steps - with a longer cooling cycle. Otherwise, oversized A/Cs will
keep working very hard for very short bursts of time (5-7 min at a time),
starting & stopping frequently; hence the increased start power demands
with all these capacitor controllers and increased risk of breakdowns.
15F temperature difference between two spaces (outside & inside) will
effectively make our body to start feel cool. Cooling capacity of marine
air conditioners are simply dependent on water temperature and excellent
air flow through the evaporator. By the way, 16,000 BTU is 1 1/3 tons of
cooling capacity (roughly 650 SQ/FT residential living space). Granted
there is a lot of thermal loss in boats but not like that. It sounds like
you have addressed that with your shading as well.
Again, it is a very personal choice but if you ask for my opinion, I think
for a 320, 9000-10000BTU is enough for 'fast cool' on the dock side...
Especially if you have been already using a 5000 BTU window unit.. If you
want to stay with VAC air conditioners, Mermaid Manufacturing in FL makes
decent units.
On our 320, I am using a very efficient 3700BTU (compressor rating per
ABYC) unit and sleep comfortably at night at anchor.
Also, make sure there is a sump pump installed that captures the
condensation with a proper overboard discharge. I don't think it is a
complete installation if there is no sump pump installed - condensation
simply goes to the bilge and continues to add humidity - hence overworking
A/C again. I would also stay away from 'reverse cycle' models.
My thoughts..hope it is helpful.
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 2:07 PM Jack Brennan <jackbrennan at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> Hi Onat:
>
> I?m kicking over the question of how large a unit to get and the ducting.
> I keep hearing 16,000 BTU and multiple ducts, but I just don?t see it.
>
> This summer, we?ve been getting by with a 5,000 BTU window unit when we
> stay on the boat. Well, on July 4, with temperatures into the mid 90s and
> high humidity in western Florida, it kept the cabin comfortable all day and
> damn near froze us out at night in the aft cabin until we turned it down to
> low.
>
> Window units are notoriously inefficient because they draw in hot, wet air
> ? and all AC was coming from the cockpit entry ? so I?m thinking that
> 10,000 BTU with one duct will work just fine.
>
> We have a large Bimini and dodger that cover a third of the boat, and our
> ports and hatches are tinted, so we don?t lose as much heat as some. The
> inside liner also provides some insulation. In addition, I have blinds I
> can hang to cover the ports.
>
> Anyone have thoughts on this?
>
> Jack Brennan
> Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 11:26:17 +1200
From: Ian Neale <kiwineales at yahoo.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Side Window Leak
Message-ID: <1D240666-F9A3-4983-9CA7-026158899602 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,
I have noticed that the glue has let go on the rear vertical side of the starboard window in the head.
The seal on the outside has also let go, I suspect due to slight movement in the Perspex window.
Has anyone had this problem and if so how did you fix it?
I am thinking of using a small wooden wedge to lift the glass up slightly so I can inject some resin in behind the window to re-glue the glass.
Keen to hear you comments.
Ian Neale.
Solutions, C320 MK II, #1122.
Sent from. my iPhone
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 19:27:15 -0400
From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Message-ID:
<CA+rGV8Yf3BC0TUT6zcUAdzGg4_0OyNOUs3FP7OkAf2wUepUjjw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Jack et. .al-
We have our AC in the port lazerette. (aka worst possible location.).
Jeff's right, this location should simply be 'off the table'. Sigh.
Here's some real world data for you on BTU sizing. We got to the boat
today at 4pm. Anyone on the Chesapeake today can tell you?this is not the
weekend to go anchor out on your boat. 96?F and something like 90 %
humidity. When we opened up the boat it was 98?F inside. I replaced our
failed AC this spring with a 12,000 BTU turbo unit from Dometic. The AC
thruhull was opened and the AC was turned on before we started loading the
boat with 'stuff'. It's now 83?F and a comfortable humidity in the boat.
Still unbearable out?even though there is a breeze ( blast furnace?) It
will be easily fine for sleeping by 10pm in either berth and we have no
ducting to the vberth (I've seen pictures of this done up the starboard
side under the fiddle but above the port light. It can be done).
If you ran the AC all day, you would be fine. If like us you need to
leave the boat during the week to go get money to put into the boat?then I
guess it is a trade of BTUs to how quickly you can cool down the boat.
12K seems fine to me. If you can run the AC 24/7, then 10K would probably
be ok too.
FWIW
Troy Dunn
Hull #514
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 21:01:29 -0400
From: Jack Brennan <jackbrennan at bellsouth.net>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Message-ID:
<mailman.2.1626552091.16917.c320-list-catalina320.com at lists.catalina320.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Troy:
It may sound funny, but we don?t want the AC to be too cold. Reducing the humidity and the temperature to about 79 or 80 is fine with us.
Going from 72 into our summer weather is absolutely brutal. Your shirt is soaked through in 10 minutes. It?s much better to be mildly cool in the boat and ease into the hotter weather.
>From May through October, I wear nothing but shorts and T shirts. I wore long pants tonight for my wife?s 62nd birthday at a fancy restaurant. First time in months. My daughters laugh at my wardrobe, but I?m comfortable.
Kudos to Onat on the Mermaid recommendation. Locally built, locally headquartered. It is 125 miles from me. The reviews on the company are excellent, and I?m hoping it can recommend a good installer for me. That would seal the deal.
Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Troy Dunn
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 7:27 PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Jack et. .al-
We have our AC in the port lazerette. (aka worst possible location.).
Jeff's right, this location should simply be 'off the table'. Sigh.
Here's some real world data for you on BTU sizing. We got to the boat
today at 4pm. Anyone on the Chesapeake today can tell you?this is not the
weekend to go anchor out on your boat. 96?F and something like 90 %
humidity. When we opened up the boat it was 98?F inside. I replaced our
failed AC this spring with a 12,000 BTU turbo unit from Dometic. The AC
thruhull was opened and the AC was turned on before we started loading the
boat with 'stuff'. It's now 83?F and a comfortable humidity in the boat.
Still unbearable out?even though there is a breeze ( blast furnace?) It
will be easily fine for sleeping by 10pm in either berth and we have no
ducting to the vberth (I've seen pictures of this done up the starboard
side under the fiddle but above the port light. It can be done).
If you ran the AC all day, you would be fine. If like us you need to
leave the boat during the week to go get money to put into the boat?then I
guess it is a trade of BTUs to how quickly you can cool down the boat.
12K seems fine to me. If you can run the AC 24/7, then 10K would probably
be ok too.
FWIW
Troy Dunn
Hull #514
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 21:26:45 -0400
From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Message-ID:
<CA+rGV8Z4dP2XC5LCKQzLDsVP5qv4544h7Yd9YKF0hP2E8GPN8Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Boat is now 79?F and yup, very comfortable. But we will let it keep
going, we like it when the boat is soaked on the outside in the morning..
;)
We have the mermaid condensator. I replaced all of the hoses for the AC
and the condensator when I installed the AC this spring. Honestly it's a
no brainer to install and since there are no moving parts it should work as
long as the Venturi stays clear we have a filter just before the
condensator on the tubing coming from the condensate pan.
Cheers
Troy
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 22:13:51 -0400
From: Jack Brennan <jackbrennan at bellsouth.net>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Message-ID:
<mailman.3.1626552091.16917.c320-list-catalina320.com at lists.catalina320.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Troy:
If I were doing a replacement, I would definitely do it myself. But an original install requires insights that, frankly, I?m not confident I have.
Where to put the through hull. Where to put the ducts. How to arrange and re-arrange all of the wiring so it makes sense. And, frankly, I?m not confident in my ability to plan a complete system without making a mistake.
Better to spend a couple of grand and make sure it?s done right. That will make my insurance company happy. Plus, I?m getting old enough that all of that boat yoga takes its toll on my body.
Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Troy Dunn
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 9:27 PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Boat is now 79?F and yup, very comfortable. But we will let it keep
going, we like it when the boat is soaked on the outside in the morning..
;)
We have the mermaid condensator. I replaced all of the hoses for the AC
and the condensator when I installed the AC this spring. Honestly it's a
no brainer to install and since there are no moving parts it should work as
long as the Venturi stays clear we have a filter just before the
condensator on the tubing coming from the condensate pan.
Cheers
Troy
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 08:57:19 -0400
From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Seacock question / AC Install
Message-ID:
<CA+rGV8akqDHX_6kHqz=iYetHLz6LrXB1xZWWRDSHDLWqijpiow at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Jack
That totally makes sense to me. There is definitely a lot of boat yoga
involved in this install. I will say that so far my experiences with
paying to have things done "professionally" have been a mixed bag. I
guess it boils down to the installer AND their experience with your
particular boat manufacturer/model. The AC in my boat was originally
installed by Cruisair Annapolis. I think we can agree in principle that
those guys know their stuff. And yet?. the AC was installed in the
aforementioned "worst possible location" creating both a safety and
maintenance issue. Also, the placement of the thru hull is too close to
the exhaust, there was obvious heat damage to the air conditioning hose due
to it being near the exhaust hose. (and arguably from owners like myself
just piling fenders in there on top of everything) I had to create a
"spreader" to ensure this will not happen again. Also both the AC wire
and the SMX II control wire were just laying on the bottom of the hull from
the AC to where it goes beneath the galley. My assumption is that this
was all done in the name of cost to install at a quoted price. Be sure to
work with your installer and share the knowledge of the guys like Jeff,
Warren, and Bruce that have all done really great ground work here. Since
you are willing to pay for the install, you will like it done properly.
FWIW
Troy
End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4058, Issue 1
******************************************
More information about the C320-list
mailing list