[C320-list] Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!

belairlk at aim.com belairlk at aim.com
Sun Nov 13 20:43:16 PST 2005


Well said!
 
Len
Aqua5  #1070
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Grunt <RFGrunt at comcast.net>
To: C320-List <C320-List at catalina320.com>; c320 <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Sent: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:53:50 -0500
Subject: [C320-list] Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!


I have owned my 320 since 1998, and prior a catalina 27 since 1987. In general I 
am not a joiner, and the regattas aren't exactly my cup of tea ( I did enjoy 
meeting many other members 3 years ago in Baltimore the only annual meeting I 
have ever attended) but I wouldn't think of not renewing my membership in the 
association.  I appreciate the fact that we have a group, with officers, who 
keep things running, and a webmaster who has invested a lot of time and effort 
on a volunteer basis to get our own list up and running. Without an association  
this will all die.  A very important point is that the value of our boats is 
greatly increased by the catalina organizations.  They provide catalina owners a 
resource that other boaters don't necessarily have, and this in turn helps to 
maintain re-sale value - not that I plan to sell any time soon.  The lists and 
probably the web site should probably remain open and free.  However, those of 
us who use theses regularly should willingly chip in - I mean $24 for the list 
and the mainsheet and the meetings, and the commaradarie - its a bargain, and I 
feel the least I can do to contribute to the effort.  Its not going to keep 
happening without some support.  I would certainly rather support our own 
organization as long as we have members willing to put in the time, than a 
commercial operation that may or may not be there tomorrow.  So any of you who 
are regular users of the list and don't contribute should do so because it is 
the right thing to do, and in the end we all benefit, whether or not we take 
advantage of every activity offered. I am posting this to both the sailnet and 
c320.org lists since there have been so many posts to both lists on this 
subject, but I intend to use the organization list going forward.

Richard Grunt 
514





---- Original Message ----- 
  From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com 
  To: c320 
  Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!


  I was waiting for you to chime in on that one! :)
  --------------------------
  Regards,
  OD

  Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld



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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Wes.Giles
    Sent: 11/13/2005 05:25 PM
    To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
    Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!




  Picture me attempting to hold back and keeping my mouth shut............

  Wes
  --------------------------
  Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Orlando.Duran
    Sent: 11/13/2005 05:16 PM
    To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
    Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!




  Pontificate a lot....it has worked well for me.... :)

  cuba libre 2
  --------------------------
  Regards,
  OD

  Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeff Hare [Catalina at thehares.com]
    Sent: 11/13/2005 05:13 PM
    To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
    Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!




  How do I get a job like that.  :)  



  At 08:02 PM 11/13/2005, you wrote:


    Jeff,

    This are just my thoughts without getting to the nitty gritty....think of me 
as a consultant, I don't actually DO anything, I only think up of things and 
then suggest them.... :)

    cuba libre 2
    --------------------------
    Regards,
    OD

    Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jeff Hare [Catalina at thehares.com]
      Sent: 11/13/2005 04:25 PM
      To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
      Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!

    Hi Guys,

    How do you propose we tie Nanosec's MS Access database (which 
    we do not have dynamic access to at this time) into the Website's 
    MySQL based authentication and access rights system so that when 
    you pay your bill,  you magically get access and if it expires, you don't?

    Not gonna happen if I have to do it...   Sorry, but I don't have time
    to burn on making already complicated stuff more complicated and
    exclusionary..

    Cheers!
    -JeffH


    At 07:04 PM 11/13/2005, you wrote:


      Dennis,

      Again, I am not in favor or closing the mailing list to non-members, I AM 
in favor of making parts of the web site (tech notes, etc) available only to 
Assc members.....

      I think any organization that charges dues should make SOME things 
available only to dues paying members....I agree, Mainsheet (to me) is not a big 
deal, hell it's mostly a forum for folks who flunked creative writing in 
college......and you're right, the annual regattas are not everyone's cup of tea 
and I respect that....that said though, there has to be some things available 
only to members in order to have a compelling reason to join (and pay dues).....

      cuba libre 2
      --------------------------
      Regards,
      OD

      Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Dennis Harris [dharris02 at vol.com]
        Sent: 11/13/2005 03:49 PM
        To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
        Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!

      Another View....Maybe I've already been kicked off, but here is another 
attempt to get my view posted, that of a non-member, but avid C320 list 
follower.  Please consider (and if you've already seen it, please excuse the 
resend.):

      There's always another view.  Here goes from a non-member.  I am not a 
joiner of orgainizations.  I will likely never attend the orgainization events, 
because of distance, expense, and preference. Nothing  against the regattas, 
it's just not my cup of tea.  As for Mainsheet, you don't have to be a member to 
take it....I don't, preferring Sail and Cruising World.  I follow the mail list, 
which until recently, was not a C320 organization document.  The predominent 
C320 list (one with most members, most participation) is the one I want to 
follow, regardless of who sponsers it.  During the 6 years that I have followed 
it, I have found the list (first Sailnet (bought a zodiac from them), then Sail 
Jazz (same people) and now C320 Org.) very helpful.  I have obtained useful 
information from time to time from other owners who have been very 
helpful....the most recent being in the past week when two people gave me advice 
on removing compass to tighten screws to fix loose pedestal guard.  Dick 
Walker's instructions were especially helpful.  But it's not been a one way 
street.  From time to time, I've participated by trying to help fellow C320 
owners where I could by offering some personal inputs.  Occasionally, I go to 
the C320 org. and enjoy the articles there and the photos of various owners and 
their boats.  Still if I have to join the organization to have access to the 
mail lists, I'll go away....no big loss to the organization, but I fail to see 
what they gain either.  Others like me will gravitate to free lists like 
Sailnet.  That doesn't help the C320 organization, does it? The inputs from  and 
benefits for various owners becomes fragmented as the number of lists and 
restrictions grow, so, to me, all seem to suffer.  

      It's possible that some non-members of the C320 organization, through 
visiting your website might become interested and join, whereas, if they have 
join, pay-up first (i.e buy into a plain wrapped, sealed package without not 
knowing what they are getting), they will just go away. 

      Before I bought my boat, I was considering three different boats.  One of 
the most notable features in my search for information on each boat before 
buying was that the C320 organization let one visit the site, learn first hand 
experiences of others, determine whether they really liked the boat.  Other boat 
types had organizations also, but the message was...join or you'll learn nothing 
from us....a real turn off. The C320 organization was different, open and 
helpful, glad to have me if I wanted to join, and if I didn't, would still 
accept and help me on their lists.  No doubt there are others who have decided 
to buy C320's with the organization's input, whether known or not.  

      I hope you will think a bit more before you summarily close the list and 
website to non-members.   It's been great like it has been in the past. 


      Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com wrote:


        Well, I agree with you, my wise and sage advice should have a price.... 
:)

        cuba libre 2
        --------------------------
        Regards,
        OD

        Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

------------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Adam Weiner" [esquirecatering at rcn.com]
          Sent: 11/13/2005 11:09 AM
          To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net> 
          Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!

        You are, as always, right.
         
        Remember, I am now, and always have been a member of the association.  I 
am a card carrying member as a matter of fact.
         
        However, there are several boats in my marina that are not part of the 
association.  What very tangible benefits can I get them to join?  They pay a 
lot more to join the yacht club, which has tangible benefits.
         
        Perhaps the best thing to do would be require membership if they want to 
receive e-mails from you.  You are worth every penny of the fee.
         
        Adam 
          -----Original Message----- 
          From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com [ mailto:Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com] 

          Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:05 AM 
          To: c320 
          Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!


          Adam,

          My suggestion was to close off that portion of the website that deals 
with tech issues to members only....that to me would be the value part of 
joining the Assc....

          cuba libre 2 
          -------------------------- 
          Regards, 
          OD

          Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
----------------------------------------------------------------------
           
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: "Adam Weiner" [esquirecatering at rcn.com] 
            Sent: 11/13/2005 10:14 AM 
            To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net> 
            Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line! 
          I think my point was, what have I paid nearly $200 for over the last 
six years to be part of the association?  The Mainsheet is OK, but I wouldn't 
buy it as a sailing magazine if I did not get it "for free" since only a few 
pages talk about 320's.  Very few of the members go to the regattas, and since 
the e-mail list is such a great benefit as everyone agrees, and it is free, why 
join the association.  (Gosh, you don't even get a burgee when you join the 
association, you have to buy it extra.) 
           
          Regarding the upcoming regatta, I have met Dick Walker and seen the 
Coronado Yacht Club, and I did it via the e-mail list, not via the association.  
Don't get me wrong, both are wonderful, but I did not do either as part of the 
association. 
           
          I guess my complaint is that a number of people on this list screamed, 
yelled, and sent out personal slams when Sailjazz wanted to charge for the list, 
yet we are asked to join an association for what end? 
           
          By the way Orlando, why pay to join the association to read technical 
articles when the same articles are on the website?  Does the website require 
membership in the association?  If not, kind of proves my point.  If so, then 
why should this list be any different? 
           
          Adam 
            -----Original Message----- 
            From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com [ mailto:Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com] 

            Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:14 AM 
            To: c320 
            Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!


            I think you misunderstood my posting, I am for a 'free' list 
service....my musing was what about making the tech portions of the website 
available for members only.....that was my point about making membership 
value-add.

            I'm no saying we should add charges additional to the Assc 
membership, simply narrowing the scope of what you get WITHOUT Assc dues...

            cuba libre 2

            -------------------------- 
            Regards, 
            OD

            Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
--------------------------------------------------------------------
             
              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: "John Van Vessem" [john at honn.com] 
              Sent: 11/13/2005 08:34 AM 
              To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net> 
              Subject: FW: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line! 



            -----Original Message----- 
            From: John Van Vessem [mailto:john at honn.com] 
            Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:27 AM 
            To: 'c320' 
            Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line! 



            Orlando, 



            The "milk" only has any value if everyone belongs.  If all C320 
owners are spread over 3 or 4 different email lists it will diminish our 
collective intelligence.  The real value to this email list, or any email list, 
is the ability to pose a question or problem to a large repository of 
experience.  There is of course the option to join all the mail lists, but for 
me I don't have the time to peruse duplicate emails.  Considering that the two 
email lists I have been on have both had problems, one because of bankruptcy and 
one because the owners wanted to get paid for their work only strengthens the 
argument that we (meaning C320 owners) would do well to stick with and support 
our own non-profit organization so we won't have to be subjected to outside 
influences shutting the list down. 



            John (Sojourn 645)
             
             







            -----Original Message----- 
            From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com [ mailto:Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com] 

            Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:31 PM 
            To: c320 
            Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line! 



            Perhaps not the list it self, if you look at either the 36 or 30 
Assc (not exactly sure which one) but they only allow Assc members to access 
their Tech Tips or to receive the Tech CD....in any case, the point is to make 
membership in the Assc have a more value-add than just the Mainsheet.....why buy 
the cow when you can get the milk for free..... :) 
            cuba libre 2 
            -------------------------- 
            Regards, 
            OD

            Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
--------------------------------------------------------------------
             
              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: Russell Monaco [russgm at yahoo.com] 
              Sent: 11/12/2005 04:19 PM 
              To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net> 
              Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line! 



            well there are many benfits to joining the asociation the most 
obvious of which is the quarterly publication Mainsheet.  Also, the annual 
Reggatta would certainly count as a valuable asset.  I would like to know are 
you suggesting people not join the association? or are you suggesting that the 
organization charge for access to the web site.  If it is the later, than how 
would you propose potential buyers to look in to our boat? Would you force them 
to join the association to simply to ask questions about a boat they are 
thinking of buying? this is just one of numerous reasons why I do not believe we 
should charge for access to our e-mail list, by the way if we charge for access 
to the e-mail list, then why join our fee based e-mail list, when cheryl at 
Sailjazz at the moment is charging $12 to join her e-mail list, or is it $36? Or 
is it some other number yet that I missed?  I view our e-mail list as a service 
our association provides to all C320 owners, and I hope that once the join our 
community they will join our association to obtain its other benefits, things 
they can learn about while on the list.  Do you really want to exclude 
non-members from this list? 
            russ monaco


            Commodore C320IA 
            Escape 621 
            Stamford, Ct

            Adam Weiner <esquirecatering at rcn.com> wrote:


              Then why join the C320 association? (Note, I just mailed my 
check.)

              Adam

              -----Original Message----- 
              From: Karl Mielenhausen [mailto:mielen at cox.net] 
              Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 5:03 AM 
              To: c320 
              Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!


              I agree, Dick. We should probably check here from time to time and 

              direct 
              owners to the organization site as they are more likely to find 
the 
              SailNet group first. 
              It should be pointed out that paid organization membership is not 
              required 
              to access the site.

              Karl Mielenhausen 
              2000 Catalina 320 #690 "Silver Lining" 
              New Bern, NC

              On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:37:34 -0500, Richard A. Walker

              wrote:

              > I personally hope we now all stay on the C-320 list that is part 
of 
              > our C-320IA organization which is C320-List at catalina320.com 
              > 
              > Cheers, 
              > 
              > Dick Walker 
              > 
              > C-320 (687) WindWalker II 
              > 740 Olive Ave. 
              > Coronado, CA 92118-2136 
              > 619.435.8986


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