[C320-list] Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Allan Field
Allan.Field at comcast.net
Mon Nov 14 03:42:54 PST 2005
Very well said Richard!
-----Original Message-----
From: C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:C320-List-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Richard Grunt
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:54 PM
To: C320-List; c320
Subject: [C320-list] Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
I have owned my 320 since 1998, and prior a catalina 27 since 1987. In
general I am not a joiner, and the regattas aren't exactly my cup of tea ( I
did enjoy meeting many other members 3 years ago in Baltimore the only
annual meeting I have ever attended) but I wouldn't think of not renewing my
membership in the association. I appreciate the fact that we have a group,
with officers, who keep things running, and a webmaster who has invested a
lot of time and effort on a volunteer basis to get our own list up and
running. Without an association this will all die. A very important point
is that the value of our boats is greatly increased by the catalina
organizations. They provide catalina owners a resource that other boaters
don't necessarily have, and this in turn helps to maintain re-sale value -
not that I plan to sell any time soon. The lists and probably the web site
should probably remain open and free. However, those of us who use theses
regularly should willingly chip in - I mean $24 for the list and the
mainsheet and the meetings, and the commaradarie - its a bargain, and I feel
the least I can do to contribute to the effort. Its not going to keep
happening without some support. I would certainly rather support our own
organization as long as we have members willing to put in the time, than a
commercial operation that may or may not be there tomorrow. So any of you
who are regular users of the list and don't contribute should do so because
it is the right thing to do, and in the end we all benefit, whether or not
we take advantage of every activity offered. I am posting this to both the
sailnet and c320.org lists since there have been so many posts to both lists
on this subject, but I intend to use the organization list going forward.
Richard Grunt
514
---- Original Message -----
From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com
To: c320
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
I was waiting for you to chime in on that one! :)
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
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----- Original Message -----
From: Wes.Giles
Sent: 11/13/2005 05:25 PM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Picture me attempting to hold back and keeping my mouth shut............
Wes
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----- Original Message -----
From: Orlando.Duran
Sent: 11/13/2005 05:16 PM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Pontificate a lot....it has worked well for me.... :)
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hare [Catalina at thehares.com]
Sent: 11/13/2005 05:13 PM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
How do I get a job like that. :)
At 08:02 PM 11/13/2005, you wrote:
Jeff,
This are just my thoughts without getting to the nitty gritty....think
of me as a consultant, I don't actually DO anything, I only think up of
things and then suggest them.... :)
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hare [Catalina at thehares.com]
Sent: 11/13/2005 04:25 PM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Hi Guys,
How do you propose we tie Nanosec's MS Access database (which
we do not have dynamic access to at this time) into the Website's
MySQL based authentication and access rights system so that when
you pay your bill, you magically get access and if it expires, you
don't?
Not gonna happen if I have to do it... Sorry, but I don't have time
to burn on making already complicated stuff more complicated and
exclusionary..
Cheers!
-JeffH
At 07:04 PM 11/13/2005, you wrote:
Dennis,
Again, I am not in favor or closing the mailing list to non-members, I
AM in favor of making parts of the web site (tech notes, etc) available only
to Assc members.....
I think any organization that charges dues should make SOME things
available only to dues paying members....I agree, Mainsheet (to me) is not a
big deal, hell it's mostly a forum for folks who flunked creative writing in
college......and you're right, the annual regattas are not everyone's cup of
tea and I respect that....that said though, there has to be some things
available only to members in order to have a compelling reason to join (and
pay dues).....
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Harris [dharris02 at vol.com]
Sent: 11/13/2005 03:49 PM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Another View....Maybe I've already been kicked off, but here is
another attempt to get my view posted, that of a non-member, but avid C320
list follower. Please consider (and if you've already seen it, please
excuse the resend.):
There's always another view. Here goes from a non-member. I am not a
joiner of orgainizations. I will likely never attend the orgainization
events, because of distance, expense, and preference. Nothing against the
regattas, it's just not my cup of tea. As for Mainsheet, you don't have to
be a member to take it....I don't, preferring Sail and Cruising World. I
follow the mail list, which until recently, was not a C320 organization
document. The predominent C320 list (one with most members, most
participation) is the one I want to follow, regardless of who sponsers it.
During the 6 years that I have followed it, I have found the list (first
Sailnet (bought a zodiac from them), then Sail Jazz (same people) and now
C320 Org.) very helpful. I have obtained useful information from time to
time from other owners who have been very helpful....the most recent being
in the past week when two people gave me advice on removing compass to
tighten screws to fix loose pedestal guard. Dick Walker's instructions were
especially helpful. But it's not been a one way street. From time to time,
I've participated by trying to help fellow C320 owners where I could by
offering some personal inputs. Occasionally, I go to the C320 org. and
enjoy the articles there and the photos of various owners and their boats.
Still if I have to join the organization to have access to the mail lists,
I'll go away....no big loss to the organization, but I fail to see what they
gain either. Others like me will gravitate to free lists like Sailnet.
That doesn't help the C320 organization, does it? The inputs from and
benefits for various owners becomes fragmented as the number of lists and
restrictions grow, so, to me, all seem to suffer.
It's possible that some non-members of the C320 organization, through
visiting your website might become interested and join, whereas, if they
have join, pay-up first (i.e buy into a plain wrapped, sealed package
without not knowing what they are getting), they will just go away.
Before I bought my boat, I was considering three different boats. One
of the most notable features in my search for information on each boat
before buying was that the C320 organization let one visit the site, learn
first hand experiences of others, determine whether they really liked the
boat. Other boat types had organizations also, but the message was...join
or you'll learn nothing from us....a real turn off. The C320 organization
was different, open and helpful, glad to have me if I wanted to join, and if
I didn't, would still accept and help me on their lists. No doubt there are
others who have decided to buy C320's with the organization's input, whether
known or not.
I hope you will think a bit more before you summarily close the list
and website to non-members. It's been great like it has been in the past.
Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com wrote:
Well, I agree with you, my wise and sage advice should have a
price.... :)
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Weiner" [esquirecatering at rcn.com]
Sent: 11/13/2005 11:09 AM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
You are, as always, right.
Remember, I am now, and always have been a member of the
association. I am a card carrying member as a matter of fact.
However, there are several boats in my marina that are not part of
the association. What very tangible benefits can I get them to join? They
pay a lot more to join the yacht club, which has tangible benefits.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be require membership if they
want to receive e-mails from you. You are worth every penny of the fee.
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com [
mailto:Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:05 AM
To: c320
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Adam,
My suggestion was to close off that portion of the website that
deals with tech issues to members only....that to me would be the value part
of joining the Assc....
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Weiner" [esquirecatering at rcn.com]
Sent: 11/13/2005 10:14 AM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
I think my point was, what have I paid nearly $200 for over the
last six years to be part of the association? The Mainsheet is OK, but I
wouldn't buy it as a sailing magazine if I did not get it "for free" since
only a few pages talk about 320's. Very few of the members go to the
regattas, and since the e-mail list is such a great benefit as everyone
agrees, and it is free, why join the association. (Gosh, you don't even get
a burgee when you join the association, you have to buy it extra.)
Regarding the upcoming regatta, I have met Dick Walker and seen
the Coronado Yacht Club, and I did it via the e-mail list, not via the
association. Don't get me wrong, both are wonderful, but I did not do
either as part of the association.
I guess my complaint is that a number of people on this list
screamed, yelled, and sent out personal slams when Sailjazz wanted to charge
for the list, yet we are asked to join an association for what end?
By the way Orlando, why pay to join the association to read
technical articles when the same articles are on the website? Does the
website require membership in the association? If not, kind of proves my
point. If so, then why should this list be any different?
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com [
mailto:Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:14 AM
To: c320
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
I think you misunderstood my posting, I am for a 'free' list
service....my musing was what about making the tech portions of the website
available for members only.....that was my point about making membership
value-add.
I'm no saying we should add charges additional to the Assc
membership, simply narrowing the scope of what you get WITHOUT Assc dues...
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Van Vessem" [john at honn.com]
Sent: 11/13/2005 08:34 AM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: FW: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
-----Original Message-----
From: John Van Vessem [mailto:john at honn.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:27 AM
To: 'c320'
Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Orlando,
The "milk" only has any value if everyone belongs. If all C320
owners are spread over 3 or 4 different email lists it will diminish our
collective intelligence. The real value to this email list, or any email
list, is the ability to pose a question or problem to a large repository of
experience. There is of course the option to join all the mail lists, but
for me I don't have the time to peruse duplicate emails. Considering that
the two email lists I have been on have both had problems, one because of
bankruptcy and one because the owners wanted to get paid for their work only
strengthens the argument that we (meaning C320 owners) would do well to
stick with and support our own non-profit organization so we won't have to
be subjected to outside influences shutting the list down.
John (Sojourn 645)
-----Original Message-----
From: Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com [
mailto:Orlando.Duran at AveryDennison.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:31 PM
To: c320
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
Perhaps not the list it self, if you look at either the 36 or 30
Assc (not exactly sure which one) but they only allow Assc members to access
their Tech Tips or to receive the Tech CD....in any case, the point is to
make membership in the Assc have a more value-add than just the
Mainsheet.....why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free..... :)
cuba libre 2
--------------------------
Regards,
OD
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
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----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Monaco [russgm at yahoo.com]
Sent: 11/12/2005 04:19 PM
To: c320" <c320 at list.sailnet.net>
Subject: RE: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
well there are many benfits to joining the asociation the most
obvious of which is the quarterly publication Mainsheet. Also, the annual
Reggatta would certainly count as a valuable asset. I would like to know
are you suggesting people not join the association? or are you suggesting
that the organization charge for access to the web site. If it is the
later, than how would you propose potential buyers to look in to our boat?
Would you force them to join the association to simply to ask questions
about a boat they are thinking of buying? this is just one of numerous
reasons why I do not believe we should charge for access to our e-mail list,
by the way if we charge for access to the e-mail list, then why join our fee
based e-mail list, when cheryl at Sailjazz at the moment is charging $12 to
join her e-mail list, or is it $36? Or is it some other number yet that I
missed? I view our e-mail list as a service our association provides to all
C320 owners, and I hope that once the join our community they will join our
association to obtain its other benefits, things they can learn about while
on the list. Do you really want to exclude non-members from this list?
russ monaco
Commodore C320IA
Escape 621
Stamford, Ct
Adam Weiner <esquirecatering at rcn.com> wrote:
Then why join the C320 association? (Note, I just mailed my
check.)
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Mielenhausen [mailto:mielen at cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 5:03 AM
To: c320
Subject: Re: [c320] The SailNet Email Lists are back on line!
I agree, Dick. We should probably check here from time to time
and
direct
owners to the organization site as they are more likely to
find the
SailNet group first.
It should be pointed out that paid organization membership is
not
required
to access the site.
Karl Mielenhausen
2000 Catalina 320 #690 "Silver Lining"
New Bern, NC
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:37:34 -0500, Richard A. Walker
wrote:
> I personally hope we now all stay on the C-320 list that is
part of
> our C-320IA organization which is C320-List at catalina320.com
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dick Walker
>
> C-320 (687) WindWalker II
> 740 Olive Ave.
> Coronado, CA 92118-2136
> 619.435.8986
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