[C320-list] wing keel to fin keel

[Lachance, Michael B (ISD, IT)]

Peter,
This is exactly the information I was seeking. Thanks 
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Peter Herron
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:31 PM
To: C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] wing keel to fin keel

Mike,

1.  It was a new keel, and it was still warm when delivered.
2.  The price included a swap of the old one.  I delivered the bolt
pattern to Catalina in Woodland Hills, CA.  Catalina made the keel,
delivered it, and picked up the old one.  Frank Butler had me use a yard
in the Channel Islands Marina in Oxnard, CA, that is less than an hour
from the factory.
3.  I cannot quantify the improvements, and I never tried.   The change

should not affect boat speed.  The keel is a few hundred pounds lighter,
so that should affect acceleration.  The boat seems to point higher, but
the surprising improvement is that the boat tracks better when going to
windward (i.e., it "finds a groove"; I can walk away from the wheel and
the boat goes straight ahead, whereas it used to go all over the place).
4.  It was worth it to me, but that's completely subjective.  I've also
added other stuff that probably has value to me and no one else.

The price was a bargain of sorts, in that Mr Butler lowered the price  
of the keel when the yard cost came in higher than he had estimated.   
He had estimated $2600 for the keel and $1000 for the yard.  The yard
charged about $2000, and Mr Butler reduced the keel price to $1600 to
keep the total the same.  That's another reason that I like Catalinas!

For a 2006 cost, you would have to add for inflation and and probably
for shipping.  I would try to get the yard to provide an estimate before
starting the work.  I'd wouldn't be surprised if the total cost of a
keel change is $5K or more today.  Also, I think the process and the
price for switching to a wing keel is the same.

Before anyone asks, I have no idea what the draft is.  And I didn't
change the rudder, even though the rudder on fin keel boats is deeper
than on wing keel boats.

Pete


On Jul 26, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Lachance, Michael B ((ISD, IT)) wrote:

> Since there's interest on the list I'll ask the questions here, if 
> that's ok:
> 1. This sounds like a new keel was made from scratch. Am I 
> itnerpreting your prior post accurately?
> 2. Did you trade in the old keel with Catalina or with the yard that 
> did the work? If not with Catalina, how did the yard get specs for new

> keel?
> 3. Can you quantify any performance improvements?
> 3. Now that it's years after the fact, do you still feel conversion 
> was worth it?
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com 
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Peter Herron
> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:55 PM
> To: C320-List; bruceheyman at cox.net
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] wing keel to fin keel
>
> The yard did all the work.  The bolt patterns are made to match yours.
>
> We got the pattern by taping a thin sheet of plywood to the bottom of 
> the keel stub, marking the plywood to show the outline of the bottom 
> of the keel stub, and then spraying paint through the holes in the 
> bilge where the bolts go.
>
> This can lead to some error when the new keel is cast, but if it's 
> there, I can't tell the difference.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2006, at 10:07 AM, bruceheyman at cox.net wrote:
>
>> Pete,Mike,
>> Do you mind copying me, I'm very interested in the process.  Did you 
>> do any of the work yourself or all yard.  Was the keel bolt patterns 
>> identical?
>> Thanks,
>> Bruce
>> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Herron <peteherron at adelphia.net>
>> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:32:09
>> To:C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] wing keel to fin keel
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Of course.  My email is:
>>
>> peteherron at adelphia.net
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2006, at 8:38 AM, Lachance, Michael B ((ISD, IT)) wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks this is very helpful information. Would you mind if I contact

>>> you off list?
>>> Mike LaChance
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net)
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
>>> To: C320-List
>>> Sent: Wed Jul 26 11:31:17 2006
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] wing keel to fin keel
>>>
>>> I switched to a fin keel in 1999, so these costs are out of date.
>>> The cost was about $3600, including a "trade-in" of the old keel, 
>>> and
>
>>> plus the haul out and bottom painting.  I also had the blisters 
>>> taken
>
>>> care of (Catalina paid for the repair).
>>>
>>> FYI, attached to the keel was a piece of paper with " 3725# " 
>>> written
>
>>> on it.  That may be the actual weight of that keel.  Or, not.
>>>
>>> Pete
>>> Dreamtime, #329
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2006, at 4:20 AM, Lachance, Michael B ((ISD, IT)) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, but how much?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com 
>>>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> BAdams3491 at aol.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:49 PM
>>>> To: c320-list at catalina320.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] wing keel to fin keel
>>>>
>>>> If you are willing to spend the money, you can do just about 
>>>> anything.
>>>>
>>>> Bert
>>>> At Ease
>>>> #442
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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