[C320-list] loose rudder post

[Peter Clancy]

Bruce ...... Don't recall exactly. I think it was fairly symmetrical. At least, the movement did not occur all in one direction.

Pete Clancy 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: bruceheyman at cox.net<mailto:bruceheyman at cox.net> 
  To: C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com> 
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post


  Peter,
  Was the movement symetrical? Two inches to port and two inches to starboard?
  Bruce
  Somerset 671 SoCal
  Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

  -----Original Message-----
  From: "Peter Clancy" <SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com>>
  Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:51:55 
  To:"C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>
  Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post

  Scott .... Thanks for your explanation. The rudder shaft is set back from the leading edge of the rudder as you indicate. When we sighted down the leading edge of the rudder we estimated a point where the shaft would 'exit' the base if it went that far. This is where movement should be nil if the shaft was perfectly straight. We observed about 4" of lateral movement when the wheel was turned lock to lock.

  Pete Clancy





  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Scott Thompson<mailto:sthompson at toad.net<mailto:sthompson at toad.net>> 
    To: C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.org>> 
    Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:31 AM
    Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post


    Peter:  I can't check a 320 until Surprise gets hauled (which could 
    happen today), but on many boats the rudder shaft is a bit aft of the 
    leading edge of the rudder and so sighting the leading edge is not a 
    reliable way to tell if the rudder shaft is bent.  The pivot can be a 
    bit further aft than this, and not parallel to the leading edge.  As 
    long as there is some point on the bottom of the rudder that does not 
    move laterally when you turn the rudder then the shaft is not bent.

    Rudders are designed this way to help reduce the stress on the steering 
    gear when weather helm occurs.  The part of the rudder forward of the 
    shaft actually helps turn the rudder back to centerline a little bit in 
    this situation.  On some boats this effect is fairly pronounced:  You 
    can let go of the helm with 10 degrees of weather helm with absolutely 
    no rounding up.  This is called a "balanced" rudder.  Of course it's 
    balanced only in the sense that you don't have to fight it.  The weather 
      helm is still there, it's just that you can't feel it in the helm.



    Chris Burti wrote:
    > This sounds like your rudder is bent back from a hard grounding. If your tube is sound and the rudder is not binding, you are probably OK. I had to replace mine last year because it bent 4" out of plumb laterally and was binding in the tube from the tube kinking a little as well.
    > 
    > You really can't repair it without cutting and sleeving it. The stainless pipe work hardens from bending and trying to rebend it will make it brittle if it doesn't break.
    >  
    > Chris Burti
    > "Commitment"
    > Catalina 320, #867, 
    > Farmville, NC
    > 
    > 
    > ----- Original Message ----
    > From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com>>>
    > To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
    > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:56:26 PM
    > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
    > 
    > 
    > Re Rudder Post ........  My 1995 C320 also exhibited a slight bit of play when I pushed it back and forth. I don't think this is significant. We also made a visual check to see if it was in line with the keel (it was) and square to the waterline (appeared to be). I then turned the wheel lock to lock several times while an engineer friend sighted the rudder as it turned from directly behind the boat. We also looked down from the top leading edge of the rudder as it turned. We discovered about 4" of side-to-side movement at the base of the rudder. That is, the 'fulcrum point' at the bottom of the rudder should have remained stationary as the rudder turned. It did not. I don't know if this is normal or whether there is a slight bend or warp somewhere in the rudder post. Any thoughts? Still trying to find out if our boats have a rudder bearing or just a fiberglass shaft in which the rudder turns.
    > 
    > Peter Clancy
    > AROBAN  C320  #222
    > Miami, FL
    >   ----- Original Message ----- 
    >   From: Jeff Church<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net>>> 
    >   To: C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.org<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>> 
    >   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:17 PM
    >   Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
    > 
    > 
    >   Larry,
    > 
    >   Good question. Mine moves maybe 3/32" but I didn't think that was a problem and the Catalina broker's technician told me not to be concerned about it. I checked a few others in the yard. Some have almost no play and some move more than mine. 
    > 
    >   JeffC
    >     ----- Original Message ----- 
    >     From: WindSwept 
    >     To: C320-List 
    >     Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:43 PM
    >     Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
    > 
    > 
    >     What is the symptom that indicates a need to shim the rudder post?
    > 
    >     Larry
    >     ----- Original Message ----- 
    >     From: "Chris Burti" <cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com>>>>
    >     To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.org<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.org<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>>
    >     Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 5:41 AM
    >     Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
    > 
    > 
    >     This is essentially the recommended solution often used on older 
    >     boats...except we used milk bottles or 2 liter soft drink bottles (better 
    >     price-same properties). My old Cal is still fine and it has been about 5 
    >     years now since I shimmed her rudder post.
    > 
    >     Chris Burti
    >     "Commitment"
    >     Catalina 320, #867,
    >     Farmville, NC
    > 
    > 
    >     ----- Original Message ----
    >     From: STINKIN GRINGO <bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net>>>>
    >     To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.org<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.org<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>>
    >     Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2006 8:06:09 PM
    >     Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
    > 
    > 
    >     Today I dropped the rudder 8 inches and put two strips of UHMW tape 1/2"
    >     wide by 5-6 inches long up the post with the sticky side towards the
    >     fiberglass . This took out all the slop, time will tell how long it will
    >     last.It took less than and hour.I was going to machine two thin wall
    >     bearings and grind out the tube and glue them in . But the shimming
    >     method was simple so we will give it a whirl, I will let the list know
    >     how it goes. You can buy UHMW tape at APS. Ken #711 going to vegas
    >     tomarrow to spend the money I saved.
    > 
    >