[C320-list] loose rudder post & bent shaft

[Arthur Gates]

Peter, Scott, and Chris, Bousum, et. al.,

My rudder shaft is bent aft about 1/2" just below the hull from a hard
grounding last week.  The aft tip of the rudder rubs the hull.
Do you think the 2 strips of UHMW tape at the top aft of the shaft would
help move the rudder tip forrward?
There is no play in the rudder.
We tried straightening with a come along secured to the wing keel for three
days, openned a 5/8" space, but the space closed when the come along was
released.
According to Gerry Douglas this week, there is no rudder bearing or bushing
in the rudder shaft.  There is a brass ring visible at the bottom of the
shaft and ours is tight to the shaft.
We have sanded to the hull matting and off the top of the rudder but there
is still a slight rubbing -- before barrier coat and bottom paint are
applied.
A new rudder is now $1,800 + frt and removal/installation labor.
Rollie  #182


> [Original Message]
> From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com>
> To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Date: 11/13/06 11:52:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>
> Scott .... Thanks for your explanation. The rudder shaft is set back from
the leading edge of the rudder as you indicate. When we sighted down the
leading edge of the rudder we estimated a point where the shaft would
'exit' the base if it went that far. This is where movement should be nil
if the shaft was perfectly straight. We observed about 4" of lateral
movement when the wheel was turned lock to lock.
>
> Pete Clancy
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Scott Thompson<mailto:sthompson at toad.net> 
>   To: C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com> 
>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:31 AM
>   Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>
>
>   Peter:  I can't check a 320 until Surprise gets hauled (which could 
>   happen today), but on many boats the rudder shaft is a bit aft of the 
>   leading edge of the rudder and so sighting the leading edge is not a 
>   reliable way to tell if the rudder shaft is bent.  The pivot can be a 
>   bit further aft than this, and not parallel to the leading edge.  As 
>   long as there is some point on the bottom of the rudder that does not 
>   move laterally when you turn the rudder then the shaft is not bent.
>
>   Rudders are designed this way to help reduce the stress on the steering 
>   gear when weather helm occurs.  The part of the rudder forward of the 
>   shaft actually helps turn the rudder back to centerline a little bit in 
>   this situation.  On some boats this effect is fairly pronounced:  You 
>   can let go of the helm with 10 degrees of weather helm with absolutely 
>   no rounding up.  This is called a "balanced" rudder.  Of course it's 
>   balanced only in the sense that you don't have to fight it.  The
weather 
>     helm is still there, it's just that you can't feel it in the helm.
>
>
>
>   Chris Burti wrote:
>   > This sounds like your rudder is bent back from a hard grounding. If
your tube is sound and the rudder is not binding, you are probably OK. I
had to replace mine last year because it bent 4" out of plumb laterally and
was binding in the tube from the tube kinking a little as well.
>   > 
>   > You really can't repair it without cutting and sleeving it. The
stainless pipe work hardens from bending and trying to rebend it will make
it brittle if it doesn't break.
>   >  
>   > Chris Burti
>   > "Commitment"
>   > Catalina 320, #867, 
>   > Farmville, NC
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----
>   > From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com>>
>   > To: C320-List
<c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>
>   > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:56:26 PM
>   > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Re Rudder Post ........  My 1995 C320 also exhibited a slight bit of
play when I pushed it back and forth. I don't think this is significant. We
also made a visual check to see if it was in line with the keel (it was)
and square to the waterline (appeared to be). I then turned the wheel lock
to lock several times while an engineer friend sighted the rudder as it
turned from directly behind the boat. We also looked down from the top
leading edge of the rudder as it turned. We discovered about 4" of
side-to-side movement at the base of the rudder. That is, the 'fulcrum
point' at the bottom of the rudder should have remained stationary as the
rudder turned. It did not. I don't know if this is normal or whether there
is a slight bend or warp somewhere in the rudder post. Any thoughts? Still
trying to find out if our boats have a rudder bearing or just a fiberglass
shaft in which the rudder turns.
>   > 
>   > Peter Clancy
>   > AROBAN  C320  #222
>   > Miami, FL
>   >   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   >   From: Jeff
Church<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net>> 
>   >   To:
C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>
> 
>   >   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:17 PM
>   >   Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>   > 
>   > 
>   >   Larry,
>   > 
>   >   Good question. Mine moves maybe 3/32" but I didn't think that was a
problem and the Catalina broker's technician told me not to be concerned
about it. I checked a few others in the yard. Some have almost no play and
some move more than mine. 
>   > 
>   >   JeffC
>   >     ----- Original Message ----- 
>   >     From: WindSwept 
>   >     To: C320-List 
>   >     Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:43 PM
>   >     Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>   > 
>   > 
>   >     What is the symptom that indicates a need to shim the rudder post?
>   > 
>   >     Larry
>   >     ----- Original Message ----- 
>   >     From: "Chris Burti"
<cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cbu
rti at yahoo.com>>>
>   >     To: "C320-List"
<c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list
@catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
>   >     Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 5:41 AM
>   >     Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>   > 
>   > 
>   >     This is essentially the recommended solution often used on older 
>   >     boats...except we used milk bottles or 2 liter soft drink bottles
(better 
>   >     price-same properties). My old Cal is still fine and it has been
about 5 
>   >     years now since I shimmed her rudder post.
>   > 
>   >     Chris Burti
>   >     "Commitment"
>   >     Catalina 320, #867,
>   >     Farmville, NC
>   > 
>   > 
>   >     ----- Original Message ----
>   >     From: STINKIN GRINGO
<bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bou
sum at webtv.net>>>
>   >     To: C320-List
<c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list
@catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
>   >     Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2006 8:06:09 PM
>   >     Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
>   > 
>   > 
>   >     Today I dropped the rudder 8 inches and put two strips of UHMW
tape 1/2"
>   >     wide by 5-6 inches long up the post with the sticky side towards
the
>   >     fiberglass . This took out all the slop, time will tell how long
it will
>   >     last.It took less than and hour.I was going to machine two thin
wall
>   >     bearings and grind out the tube and glue them in . But the
shimming
>   >     method was simple so we will give it a whirl, I will let the list
know
>   >     how it goes. You can buy UHMW tape at APS. Ken #711 going to vegas
>   >     tomarrow to spend the money I saved.
>   > 
>   > 
>