[C320-list] loose rudder post & bent shaft
Chris Burti
clburti at gmail.com
Wed Apr 25 05:25:44 PDT 2007
In my opinion since you appear to have a fairly minor bend in the rudder
shaft, you have two easy options that I would try before cutting and
sleeving the shaft or replacing the rudder.
First, I'd try the come-along again. Note that three days or three minutes
are the same to steel, it won't develop a 'set' by holding it there for any
period of time. You have to bend it past the point you want because there
will always be a certain amount of spring back. You probably need to open up
the gap at aft end about an inch before releasing the come-along in order to
end up with enough clearance. You will just have to experiment and go slow.
The second option is to drop the rudder, grind a half inch off of the top at
the back and re-glass it. I doubt the altered geometry will affect handling
significantly.
On 4/25/07, Arthur Gates <argates2nd at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Peter, Scott, and Chris, Bousum, et. al.,
>
> My rudder shaft is bent aft about 1/2" just below the hull from a hard
> grounding last week. The aft tip of the rudder rubs the hull.
> Do you think the 2 strips of UHMW tape at the top aft of the shaft would
> help move the rudder tip forrward?
> There is no play in the rudder.
> We tried straightening with a come along secured to the wing keel for
> three
> days, openned a 5/8" space, but the space closed when the come along was
> released.
> According to Gerry Douglas this week, there is no rudder bearing or
> bushing
> in the rudder shaft. There is a brass ring visible at the bottom of the
> shaft and ours is tight to the shaft.
> We have sanded to the hull matting and off the top of the rudder but there
> is still a slight rubbing -- before barrier coat and bottom paint are
> applied.
> A new rudder is now $1,800 + frt and removal/installation labor.
> Rollie #182
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com>
> > To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> > Date: 11/13/06 11:52:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> >
> > Scott .... Thanks for your explanation. The rudder shaft is set back
> from
> the leading edge of the rudder as you indicate. When we sighted down the
> leading edge of the rudder we estimated a point where the shaft would
> 'exit' the base if it went that far. This is where movement should be nil
> if the shaft was perfectly straight. We observed about 4" of lateral
> movement when the wheel was turned lock to lock.
> >
> > Pete Clancy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Scott Thompson<mailto:sthompson at toad.net>
> > To: C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> >
> >
> > Peter: I can't check a 320 until Surprise gets hauled (which could
> > happen today), but on many boats the rudder shaft is a bit aft of the
> > leading edge of the rudder and so sighting the leading edge is not a
> > reliable way to tell if the rudder shaft is bent. The pivot can be a
> > bit further aft than this, and not parallel to the leading edge. As
> > long as there is some point on the bottom of the rudder that does not
> > move laterally when you turn the rudder then the shaft is not bent.
> >
> > Rudders are designed this way to help reduce the stress on the
> steering
> > gear when weather helm occurs. The part of the rudder forward of the
> > shaft actually helps turn the rudder back to centerline a little bit
> in
> > this situation. On some boats this effect is fairly pronounced: You
> > can let go of the helm with 10 degrees of weather helm with absolutely
> > no rounding up. This is called a "balanced" rudder. Of course it's
> > balanced only in the sense that you don't have to fight it. The
> weather
> > helm is still there, it's just that you can't feel it in the helm.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Burti wrote:
> > > This sounds like your rudder is bent back from a hard grounding. If
> your tube is sound and the rudder is not binding, you are probably OK. I
> had to replace mine last year because it bent 4" out of plumb laterally
> and
> was binding in the tube from the tube kinking a little as well.
> > >
> > > You really can't repair it without cutting and sleeving it. The
> stainless pipe work hardens from bending and trying to rebend it will make
> it brittle if it doesn't break.
> > >
> > > Chris Burti
> > > "Commitment"
> > > Catalina 320, #867,
> > > Farmville, NC
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Peter Clancy <SAILORPETE at msn.com<mailto:SAILORPETE at msn.com>>
> > > To: C320-List
> <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:56:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > Re Rudder Post ........ My 1995 C320 also exhibited a slight bit of
> play when I pushed it back and forth. I don't think this is significant.
> We
> also made a visual check to see if it was in line with the keel (it was)
> and square to the waterline (appeared to be). I then turned the wheel lock
> to lock several times while an engineer friend sighted the rudder as it
> turned from directly behind the boat. We also looked down from the top
> leading edge of the rudder as it turned. We discovered about 4" of
> side-to-side movement at the base of the rudder. That is, the 'fulcrum
> point' at the bottom of the rudder should have remained stationary as the
> rudder turned. It did not. I don't know if this is normal or whether there
> is a slight bend or warp somewhere in the rudder post. Any thoughts? Still
> trying to find out if our boats have a rudder bearing or just a fiberglass
> shaft in which the rudder turns.
> > >
> > > Peter Clancy
> > > AROBAN C320 #222
> > > Miami, FL
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Jeff
> Church<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net<mailto:jjemail at comcast.net>>
> > > To:
> C320-List<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:
> c320-list at catalina320.com>
> >
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:17 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > Good question. Mine moves maybe 3/32" but I didn't think that was
> a
> problem and the Catalina broker's technician told me not to be concerned
> about it. I checked a few others in the yard. Some have almost no play and
> some move more than mine.
> > >
> > > JeffC
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: WindSwept
> > > To: C320-List
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > What is the symptom that indicates a need to shim the rudder
> post?
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chris Burti"
> <cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:cburti at yahoo.com<mailto:
> cbu
> rti at yahoo.com>>>
> > > To: "C320-List"
> <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:
> c320-list
> @catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 5:41 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > This is essentially the recommended solution often used on older
> > > boats...except we used milk bottles or 2 liter soft drink
> bottles
> (better
> > > price-same properties). My old Cal is still fine and it has been
> about 5
> > > years now since I shimmed her rudder post.
> > >
> > > Chris Burti
> > > "Commitment"
> > > Catalina 320, #867,
> > > Farmville, NC
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: STINKIN GRINGO
> <bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:bousum at webtv.net<mailto:
> bou
> sum at webtv.net>>>
> > > To: C320-List
> <c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com<mailto:
> c320-list
> @catalina320.com<mailto:c320-list at catalina320.com>>>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2006 8:06:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] loose rudder post
> > >
> > >
> > > Today I dropped the rudder 8 inches and put two strips of UHMW
> tape 1/2"
> > > wide by 5-6 inches long up the post with the sticky side towards
> the
> > > fiberglass . This took out all the slop, time will tell how long
> it will
> > > last.It took less than and hour.I was going to machine two thin
> wall
> > > bearings and grind out the tube and glue them in . But the
> shimming
> > > method was simple so we will give it a whirl, I will let the
> list
> know
> > > how it goes. You can buy UHMW tape at APS. Ken #711 going to
> vegas
> > > tomarrow to spend the money I saved.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Chris Burti
Farmville, NC
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