[C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.

Mon Aug 20 13:49:36 PDT 2007

Bob,
Just back from the boat, and had to abort my sail week because of a
continuing bad weather forecast.
Also you have been my inspiration for going forward with this project.

But I looked at the top of the mast with binoculars and found the following.

The jib halyard sheave is on the port side and the spimmaker halyard is on
the starboard side on #851

Both halyards when comming off the sheaves go down through fairleads just
below the sheave.

That means the halyard exit from the fairlead on #851 is BELOW the forestay.
So Allen's pennant idea is an really good one, but 10 to 12 inches of
pennant should be enough for halyard chafe prevention.  And it appears that
the raising and lowering of the Asym would best be done on the starboard
side to minimise any interferences.

I also noticed that the down haul line for the tacker from the anchor roller
would come up inside the pulpit.  The pulpit seems to extend beyond the
anchor roller.  Is this true with your installation??  And did you just snap
shackle the block to to the bail above the anchor roller or somehow fasten
it direcly to the roller?

Your email below with the tacker location of 5 feet  when running and 1.5
feet when reaching is very helpful

What is the luff dimension of your Asym.? That seems to be the critical
dimension for where the tacker position will be.

We are looking at a  sail with a luff of 43.5 and I am concerned that a 12
inch pennant may drop the sail tack too low for any kind of reaching.

BTW, I bought 10 wooden balls 1 1/2 inch diameter from McMaster Carr
($5.00) and 50 1/4 unch ID delrin washers (12.00) plus $5.00 freight.
Drilled a 1/4 inch hole in each. Strung the balls on an overall line of 30
inches, with 4 of the delrin washers between each ball for separation.  Took
it to the boat and it runs up and down the furled jib slick as a whistle.
Look at the neilprydesail.com website for a description and sketch of their
"parrell bead" tacker.(They sell it for $52. and its a real bargain"

Also what size and length sheets did you get for your Asym.

And did the sailmaker give you a "turtle" to stow the Asym or do you just
use a sailbag.

Planning on getting a sock from "chutescoop.com" 40 feet and will wait for
their boatshow special 15% discount which will make it around $220.00

Thats my planned project

Again, I can't thank you enoug for your encouragement in this project.

Irv Grunes
Isle of Wight #851

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of Robert E. Sloat
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 10:43 AM
To: C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.

Irv-If you use a pennant, make sure it is no too long.  The length would
depend on the cut of the asymmetric used.  If too long, then you won't be
able to bring the tack down enough to straighten the luff which allows you
to more efficiently sail closer to the wind.  The higher the tack, the
farther from the wind you can sail and the lower the tack the closer you can
sail.

On my asymmetric, for up to around 150-160 degrees apparent, the tack is
about 5 feet up from the anchor bail.  This allows the luff to rotate to
windward and get farther away from the main's blanket.  For closer sailing,
60 degrees apparent with wind uder about 10 knots, the tack is around 1 1/2
feet up from the bail.  You can notice how the luff gets straightened when
bringing the tack down and the spinnaker is more genoa-like in shape.

Bob Sloat
Savannah 894 (2002)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.

> Allan,
> The pennant idea seems to solve the halyard chafing difficulty that some
> have experienced.
>
> Was the shackle on the pennant a "swivel type" even though there may be a
> swivel at the spinnaker head already
>
> Did you consider a stopper ball on the halyard before the actual halyard
> shackle to keep it from coming in contact with the spinnaker halyard
> sheave
> at the top of the mast.
>
> If ever can take a pix, send it off list to
>
> igrunes at comcast.net
>
> but your pennant description is very adequate.
>
> Irv Grunes
> Isle of Wight #851
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of
> allan.field at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:15 PM
> To: C320-List
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.
>
>
> Irv - I had the WM rigger make up an 18-inch pennant of vinyl coated wire.
> One end has a swaged-on shackle that clips onto the head of the sock.  The
> other end has a swaged-on thimble that the spinnaker halyard hooks into.
> This way, any chafe at the top of the forestay or against the furler drum
> is
> against this pennant instead of the rope halyard.  This seems to be much
> more economical than a crain.  I can take a pix and send it out next
> weekend
> if you'd like.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Allan S. Field
> Sea Shadow - #808
> Columbia, MD
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are still looking at Asymetrics. Looking for any comments on my scheme
>> below to eliminte the need for a crane.
>>
>> Found this Quantun website:
>>
>> http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/asymmetrical%20trim%20guide.pdf
>>
>> I sent this to my sailing partner:
>>
>
============================================================================
>> ===================
>>
>> BUT the Quantum article says:
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> What equipment do I need?
>>
>> . Spinnaker halyard that is above
>>
>> the forestay.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I am not sure of this BUT
>>
>> I think that our forestay goes to the top of the mast.
>>
>> I think the sheave for the spinnaker halyard is below it and lets assume
>> that it is on the port side.
>>
>> Then flying an asym on the port side, the halyard would not be in contact
>> with the forestay.
>>
>> Then if jibeing the asym to the starboard side, the halyard would have to
>> cross over the forestay and would probably chafe.
>>
>> As I think about it, I think the solution would be something like our
>> backstay adjuster that has the ball on the line to keep the thimble from
>> pulling up into the sheave. If a stopper ball were put on the halyard, a
>> knot on the halyard to hold the stopper ball, and then 8 inches or so of
>> chafe guard were put on the halyard and then the shackle to the halyard.
>>
>> Then the sail would be hoisted that 8 inches or so lower, but when jibed,
>> the chafe guard would protect the halyard from the forestay.
>>
>> This would eliminate the requirement for a crane and allow us to use the
>> spinnaker halyard safely.
>>
>> I will bounce this off the list to see what response we get.
>>
>> Irv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Seiden [mailto:theseidens at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:18 PM
>> To: Irv Grunes
>> Subject: Re: Asym's
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> Requesting quotes from a lot of the lofts. Will keep you posted on the
>> quotes.
>>
>> Saw this at the quantum website. See for setting and dousing
>>
>> http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/asymmetrical%20trim%20guide.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> READ IT!
>>
>>
>> We want it for running in light air. That would seem to mean the middle
>> sail.
>>
>>
>> The diagrams seem to suggest that the head of the asymmetrical comes well
>> below the top of the mast. Especially with a sock, that should keep the
>> head of the sail well away from anything it could chafe on.
>>
>>
>> Quantum says absolutely nothing about a crane.
>>
>>
>> me
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>