[C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.

[Robert E. Sloat]

Irv-The weather here on southern Lake Michigan has also been lousy for
sailing of late, which leaves time to talk about 320s.  Almost 5 straight
days of rain and mist.  It feels like Portland, OR.

Below are my comments to your questions:

With 2 fairheads, it looks like you have a set up for 2 jib halyards.
These fairheads keep the jib halyards away from the furling gear and
line up the halyard at the correct angle with the top swivel of the furling
gear.

I wouldn't fly a spinnaker from the halyard leading down through
a fairhead and below the forestay.  When you jibe the spinnaker it will then
cross and rub on the forestay and possible cause damage or, if your lucky,
just chafe.  Flying the spinnaker from the fairhead would also put a lot of
stress on the fairhead which is designed to slightly alter the jib halyard
exiting the mast and not for a 90 degree turn of the
halyard on a very large sail like the spinnaker.

If you do have a spinnaker halyard exiting the mast above the forestay and 
then wandering down through a fairhead, you
climb up the mast and pull the spinnaker halyard out from the fairhead
and it will be ready for spinnaker use.  If it's really a jib halyard 
exiting the mast below the forestay, then
you need to redirect it through the correct spinnaker exit at the masthead.
You may have to do this with the mast on the tarmac or by fishing lines
through the mast.

My hull 894 has the jib halyard coming out of the port sheave below the
forestay and through a single fairhead at the top of the mast.  Most 320's
with furling head sails have this arrangement since the jib halyard exits 
the mast near the deck on the port side.  There is only one fairhead at the
top of my mast which is for the jib halyard.  My spinnaker halyard comes out 
of the mast at the port sheave above the
forestay and goes directly to the spinnaker when it is flying.  There is no
fairhead involved with this halyard.  The port exit doesn't make
any difference when flying the spinnaker on either tack.  No chafe or any
other problems flying at lot on either tack for 4-5 seasons.

There are six sheaves at the top of the mast (per the Charleston mast 
owner's manual now on the 320 site).  The Charleston mast folks also spec
out the 320's OC1 masthead as having 2 spinnaker and 2 jib sheaves at the 
masthead along with a main and topping lift sheave.

Check out the 320 website for pictures that Jeff Church took of his top of
his mast.  He has a crane on the masthead which you don't, but the pictures
show the exit points for the jib and spinnaker halyards very clearly.  I
believe his 320 is less than 10 years old so the mast configuration should
be like our 800 vintage hull nos. You can see there are 2 exits for the
spinnaker halyard which are side-by-side and they are above the forestay. 
The masthead is also faired out to reduce halyard chafe.
Below the headstay are the 2 side-by-side jib halyard exits.
Look in the photo gallery index for the term "mast" and Jeff's pictures will
show you the halyard exits at the mast head.

I don't have the luff dimensions for my asymmetric, but the sailmaker (UK)
did make sure it had the correct Catalina 320 specs and cut the size for
intended use which was cruising and the ability to sail fairly easily at
150-160 degrees apparent and take fairly strong winds.

The tack line ends up in front of the bow pulpit when sailing rotating the 
Tacker or your beads so its connection to the tack line is in front of the 
furled genoa.  Mine goes through a Garhauer snatch block attached to the OEM 
anchor bail and then back to whatever adjusting system you use to raise or 
lower
the tack line when needed.  I don't mind wandering to the bow with the
spinnaker flying, so I use the anchor windless as my adjusting means for the
spinnaker tack.  The anchor rode is secured to a second cleat in the anchor
well and I feed the spinnaker line through the opening in the anchor well
door around the windlass and then to a cleat.  Down adjustment is
with the windlass and up is by hand feeding.  This arrangement makes for one
less trip hazard on the foredeck.

The spinnaker sheets should be around twice your boat length according the
sailmakers.  I use one red colored sheet for the port side and a green one
for the starboard.  This helps with inexperienced crew since when you are
flying the spinnaker since there is a lot of spinnaker sheet laying around
the cockpit and the different colors help.  (With all this rope laying
around, make sure none of it goes overboard and finds your propeller.)  They
should also be as small in diameter as can be easily handled by crew and the
primaries.  The lighter sheets make tacking easier in light winds. Some 
folks splice small diameter
line to larger line with the latter the sheet you handle in the cockpit.  I
have 65 feet of 3/8 inch New England Stay-Set for each sheet.  You could go
a little smaller diameter as long as the sheet would work in the winches.

Lastly, my sailmaker supplied a regular sail bag with clips that attach to
the lifelines to keep the thing from going overboard when launching the 
sock.

I chose a sailmaker to do a turn key project, supplying me with the sail,
bag, sock and tack arrangement all put together and delivered on a good to
go basis.

You should also decide whether you want a tri-radial cut design which is
stronger and more efficient since it stretches less at key points.
That design is a little more expensive and may not be needed for many
sailors.  Also, the sailmaker can recommend sailcloth weight for the type of
sailing you do.  I got fairly light weight cloth which is reinforced for
strength.  It's only money and you can generally find additional things to
eat up the funds!


Bob Sloat
Savannah




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
Cc: "Seiden, Bob" <theseidens at earthlink.net>; "Oryniak,Tom&Coryn"
<toryniak at patmedia.net>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.


>
> Bob,
> Just back from the boat, and had to abort my sail week because of a
> continuing bad weather forecast.
> Also you have been my inspiration for going forward with this project.
>
> But I looked at the top of the mast with binoculars and found the
> following.
>
> The jib halyard sheave is on the port side and the spimmaker halyard is on
> the starboard side on #851
>
> Both halyards when comming off the sheaves go down through fairleads just
> below the sheave.
>
> That means the halyard exit from the fairlead on #851 is BELOW the
> forestay.
> So Allen's pennant idea is an really good one, but 10 to 12 inches of
> pennant should be enough for halyard chafe prevention.  And it appears
> that
> the raising and lowering of the Asym would best be done on the starboard
> side to minimise any interferences.
>
> I also noticed that the down haul line for the tacker from the anchor
> roller
> would come up inside the pulpit.  The pulpit seems to extend beyond the
> anchor roller.  Is this true with your installation??  And did you just
> snap
> shackle the block to to the bail above the anchor roller or somehow fasten
> it direcly to the roller?
>
> Your email below with the tacker location of 5 feet  when running and 1.5
> feet when reaching is very helpful
>
> What is the luff dimension of your Asym.? That seems to be the critical
> dimension for where the tacker position will be.
>
> We are looking at a  sail with a luff of 43.5 and I am concerned that a 12
> inch pennant may drop the sail tack too low for any kind of reaching.
>
> BTW, I bought 10 wooden balls 1 1/2 inch diameter from McMaster Carr
> ($5.00) and 50 1/4 unch ID delrin washers (12.00) plus $5.00 freight.
> Drilled a 1/4 inch hole in each. Strung the balls on an overall line of 30
> inches, with 4 of the delrin washers between each ball for separation.
> Took
> it to the boat and it runs up and down the furled jib slick as a whistle.
> Look at the neilprydesail.com website for a description and sketch of
> their
> "parrell bead" tacker.(They sell it for $52. and its a real bargain"
>
> Also what size and length sheets did you get for your Asym.
>
> And did the sailmaker give you a "turtle" to stow the Asym or do you just
> use a sailbag.
>
> Planning on getting a sock from "chutescoop.com" 40 feet and will wait for
> their boatshow special 15% discount which will make it around $220.00
>
> Thats my planned project
>
> Again, I can't thank you enoug for your encouragement in this project.
>
> Irv Grunes
> Isle of Wight #851
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of Robert E. Sloat
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 10:43 AM
> To: C320-List
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.
>
>
> Irv-If you use a pennant, make sure it is no too long.  The length would
> depend on the cut of the asymmetric used.  If too long, then you won't be
> able to bring the tack down enough to straighten the luff which allows you
> to more efficiently sail closer to the wind.  The higher the tack, the
> farther from the wind you can sail and the lower the tack the closer you
> can
> sail.
>
> On my asymmetric, for up to around 150-160 degrees apparent, the tack is
> about 5 feet up from the anchor bail.  This allows the luff to rotate to
> windward and get farther away from the main's blanket.  For closer
> sailing,
> 60 degrees apparent with wind uder about 10 knots, the tack is around 1
> 1/2
> feet up from the bail.  You can notice how the luff gets straightened when
> bringing the tack down and the spinnaker is more genoa-like in shape.
>
> Bob Sloat
> Savannah 894 (2002)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
> To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.
>
>
>> Allan,
>> The pennant idea seems to solve the halyard chafing difficulty that some
>> have experienced.
>>
>> Was the shackle on the pennant a "swivel type" even though there may be a
>> swivel at the spinnaker head already
>>
>> Did you consider a stopper ball on the halyard before the actual halyard
>> shackle to keep it from coming in contact with the spinnaker halyard
>> sheave
>> at the top of the mast.
>>
>> If ever can take a pix, send it off list to
>>
>> igrunes at comcast.net
>>
>> but your pennant description is very adequate.
>>
>> Irv Grunes
>> Isle of Wight #851
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of
>> allan.field at comcast.net
>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:15 PM
>> To: C320-List
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.
>>
>>
>> Irv - I had the WM rigger make up an 18-inch pennant of vinyl coated
>> wire.
>> One end has a swaged-on shackle that clips onto the head of the sock.
>> The
>> other end has a swaged-on thimble that the spinnaker halyard hooks into.
>> This way, any chafe at the top of the forestay or against the furler drum
>> is
>> against this pennant instead of the rope halyard.  This seems to be much
>> more economical than a crain.  I can take a pix and send it out next
>> weekend
>> if you'd like.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Allan S. Field
>> Sea Shadow - #808
>> Columbia, MD
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are still looking at Asymetrics. Looking for any comments on my
>>> scheme
>>> below to eliminte the need for a crane.
>>>
>>> Found this Quantun website:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/asymmetrical%20trim%20guide.pdf
>>>
>>> I sent this to my sailing partner:
>>>
>>
> ============================================================================
>>> ===================
>>>
>>> BUT the Quantum article says:
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> What equipment do I need?
>>>
>>> . Spinnaker halyard that is above
>>>
>>> the forestay.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> I am not sure of this BUT
>>>
>>> I think that our forestay goes to the top of the mast.
>>>
>>> I think the sheave for the spinnaker halyard is below it and lets assume
>>> that it is on the port side.
>>>
>>> Then flying an asym on the port side, the halyard would not be in
>>> contact
>>> with the forestay.
>>>
>>> Then if jibeing the asym to the starboard side, the halyard would have
>>> to
>>> cross over the forestay and would probably chafe.
>>>
>>> As I think about it, I think the solution would be something like our
>>> backstay adjuster that has the ball on the line to keep the thimble from
>>> pulling up into the sheave. If a stopper ball were put on the halyard, a
>>> knot on the halyard to hold the stopper ball, and then 8 inches or so of
>>> chafe guard were put on the halyard and then the shackle to the halyard.
>>>
>>> Then the sail would be hoisted that 8 inches or so lower, but when
>>> jibed,
>>> the chafe guard would protect the halyard from the forestay.
>>>
>>> This would eliminate the requirement for a crane and allow us to use the
>>> spinnaker halyard safely.
>>>
>>> I will bounce this off the list to see what response we get.
>>>
>>> Irv
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Seiden [mailto:theseidens at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:18 PM
>>> To: Irv Grunes
>>> Subject: Re: Asym's
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> Requesting quotes from a lot of the lofts. Will keep you posted on the
>>> quotes.
>>>
>>> Saw this at the quantum website. See for setting and dousing
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/asymmetrical%20trim%20guide.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> READ IT!
>>>
>>>
>>> We want it for running in light air. That would seem to mean the middle
>>> sail.
>>>
>>>
>>> The diagrams seem to suggest that the head of the asymmetrical comes
>>> well
>>> below the top of the mast. Especially with a sock, that should keep the
>>> head of the sail well away from anything it could chafe on.
>>>
>>>
>>> Quantum says absolutely nothing about a crane.
>>>
>>>
>>> me
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>