[C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.

Scott Thompson sthompson at toad.net
Sun Aug 26 16:41:37 PDT 2007 

With the lazy sheet led forward of the tack line, how do you keep the 
lazy sheet from falling into the water ahead of the boat and then 
running over it?  Sport boats with sprits that do outside jibes often 
attach a batten to the end of the sprit to support the lazy sheet to 
prevent this.  But such boats sail hot apparent wind angles all of the 
time.  With the 320 I find that every time I turn downwind the lazy 
sheet falls off the front of the bow unless I keep a good bit of tension 
on it, which then distorts the sail trim.

Also, in light air I've had the problem of the sheets dragging in the 
water during an outside jibe because there isn't enough wind to fly the 
clew way out in front of the boat.  This often leads to running over one 
of the sheets.  Maybe I need lighter spin sheets.

Most of my asym experience is on sport boats that do inside jibes, and 
so that's what I've generally done on the 320 as well.

Scott

Kirk McCullough wrote:
> We outside jibe our asym every time. Just be sure to turn down wind and 
> let the sail fly out well ahead of the forestay. Ease the old sheet and 
> manage the slack in the new sheet. No problems.
> 
> I've even done it single handed with the Autohelm handling the steering.
> 
> Kirk
> Boomerang #124
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Thompson" <sthompson at toad.net>
> To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymmetrics.
> 
> 
>> That sounds like a port tack launch, since typically you hoist the 
>> sail on the leeward side of the boat, while sailing on port tack.  Or 
>> am I missing something?
>>
>> I've generally had better luck with inside jibes (i.e. jibing the clew 
>> between the luff and the headstay like a jib rather than in front of 
>> the luff).  Rigging for outside jibes seem to often result with a 
>> spinnaker sheet under the boat in my experience.  What's the trick to 
>> preventing this?  My assymetrical came from another boat and I have no 
>> instruction manual, let alone a CD.
>>
>> Scott Thompson
>> Surprise, 653
>>
>> Robert E. Sloat wrote:
>>> Irv-If you get an asymmetric make sure the sail maker gives you a CD 
>>> or a detailed instruction manual on its use.  UK gave me both a VHS 
>>> tape and a CD which was indispensable.
>>>
>>> Below is the drill used with my UK Flasher, ATN Tacker (which hold 
>>> the tack to the forestay near the anchor roller bail) and their 
>>> Stacker (sock):
>>>
>>> When not in use, I keep the spinnaker halyard attached to
>>> a small cleat on the port side cabin top track to stay out the way of 
>>> the
>>> furling gear at the top of the forestay.  When launching the 
>>> spinnaker on a
>>> starboard tack, I walk the spinnaker halyard around the front of the
>>> forestay, connect the spinnaker to the halyard on the starboard side 
>>> of the boat, launch
>>> and then tie the sock control lines to a cleat on the starboard cabin 
>>> top
>>> track.  This keeps the halyard in front of and above the forestay and
>>> exiting the mast without touching the forestay.
>>>
>>> With my setup having the idle spinnaker halyard cleated to the port 
>>> side of
>>> the boat, if you forget to walk the spinnaker halyard around the 
>>> front of
>>> the forestay for a starboard launch and instead walk the halyard in 
>>> front of
>>> the mast through the foretriangle and launch on a starboard tack the
>>> spinnaker halyard goes out of the mast exit above the forestay, down
>>> through the forestay triangle, exiting on the starboard side of the 
>>> foretriangle and the halyard will rub on the back side of
>>> the forestay and furling gear which can cause chafing and possible 
>>> more if
>>> there is a lot of wind.  If you then jibe from starboard tack the 
>>> halyard will
>>> wrap around the front of the forestay and furling gear making 
>>> lowering the sock very difficult and
>>> making it very difficult to impossible to lower the halyard on either 
>>> tack.
>>>
>>> Since you do outside jibes with the spinnaker tack line attached to the
>>> anchor roller bail, the sail goes around the front of the boat on a 
>>> jibe and
>>> the spinnaker halyard when properly set up just follows the sail 
>>> above the
>>> forestay to the new tack.
>>>
>>> When dousing with the sock, if required, I move the dousing lines 
>>> around the
>>> front of the forestay to the side the spinnaker is flying from and 
>>> easily
>>> bring the sock down.  The no-brainer once the spinnaker is properly 
>>> launched is to launch and douse from the same side.  If not possible, 
>>> just walk the sock control lines around the front of the forestay to 
>>> the side the sail is coming down on.
>>>
>>> I installed folding pad eyes for the spinnaker blocks per Catalina's 
>>> deck plan which are on deck at the rail lateral from the primary 
>>> winches. Some folks install more than one on each side to fine tune 
>>> the sail, but I am into high performance crusing rather than outright 
>>> racing, so I only used one on each side.
>>>
>>> Get the sail, learn the drill of setting up all the lines, launch and 
>>> dousing from the sailmakers instructions, get a little nervous 
>>> preparing for the first use, have three people aboard for the first 
>>> few uses and then enjoy the pride of going fast down wind and showing 
>>> off a little. Pick an interesting color patten as you trademark.
>>>
>>> Bob Sloat
>>> Savannah Hull 894 (2002)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
>>> To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
>>> Cc: "Seiden, Bob" <theseidens at earthlink.net>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>> What a relief to know that the halyard exits above the forestay.
>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>> Irv Grunes #851
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
>>>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com]On Behalf Of Robert E. Sloat
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:27 PM
>>>> To: C320-List
>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Irv-I have benn flying a UK Flasher asymmetric and there is no 
>>>> problem with
>>>> the halyard crossing the forestay on jibes. I don't have a crane and 
>>>> after 4
>>>> seasons of fairly regular use there is no chafing of the spinnaker 
>>>> haylard
>>>> of any of the
>>>> spinnaker gear.  If you were using the spinnaker for days at a time, 
>>>> there
>>>> may be some benefit in using a crane and the additional equipment to 
>>>> keep
>>>> the sock away from the mast and
>>>> possibly prevent chafing of the halyard.
>>>>
>>>> The spinnaker halyard exits the mast above the forestay fitting so the
>>>> spinnaker halyard clears the forestay if properly connected to the
>>>> spinnaker.  The key when launching is to make sure that the spinnaker
>>>> halyard is in front of the forestay and does not pass through the
>>>> foretriangle.
>>>>
>>>> For the folks who added a crane, did you have to install an exit 
>>>> hole and
>>>> fitting in the mast for the spinnaker halyard going to the crane block?
>>>>
>>>> Bob Sloat
>>>> Savannah Hull 894
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Irv Grunes" <igrunes at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "C320-List" <c320-list at catalina320.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:03 AM
>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Mast Cranes and Asymetrics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We are still looking at Asymetrics.  Looking for any comments on my 
>>>>> scheme
>>>>> below to eliminte the need for a crane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Found this Quantun website:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/asymmetrical%20trim%20guide.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> I sent this to my sailing partner:
>>>>>
>>>> ============================================================================ 
>>>>
>>>>> ===================
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT the Quantum article says:
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> What equipment do I need?
>>>>>
>>>>> . Spinnaker halyard that is above
>>>>>
>>>>> the forestay.
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure of this BUT
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that our forestay goes to the top of the mast.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the sheave for the spinnaker halyard is below it and lets 
>>>>> assume
>>>>> that it is on the port side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then flying an asym on the port side, the halyard would not be in 
>>>>> contact
>>>>> with the forestay.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then if jibeing the asym to the starboard side, the halyard would 
>>>>> have to
>>>>> cross over the forestay and would probably chafe.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I think about it, I think the solution would be something like our
>>>>> backstay adjuster that has the ball on the line to keep the thimble 
>>>>> from
>>>>> pulling up into the sheave.  If a stopper ball were put on the 
>>>>> halyard, a
>>>>> knot on the halyard to hold the stopper ball, and then 8 inches or 
>>>>> so of
>>>>> chafe guard were put on the halyard and then the shackle to the 
>>>>> halyard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then the sail would be hoisted that 8 inches or so lower, but when 
>>>>> jibed,
>>>>> the chafe guard would protect the halyard from the forestay.
>>>>>
>>>>> This would eliminate the requirement for a crane and allow us to 
>>>>> use the
>>>>> spinnaker halyard safely.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will bounce this off the list to see what response we get.
>>>>>
>>>>> Irv
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bob Seiden [mailto:theseidens at earthlink.net]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:18 PM
>>>>> To: Irv Grunes
>>>>> Subject: Re: Asym's
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> Requesting quotes from a lot of the lofts.  Will keep you posted on 
>>>>> the
>>>>> quotes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saw this at the quantum website.  See for setting and dousing
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/asymmetrical%20trim%20guide.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> READ IT!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We want it for running in light air.  That would seem to mean the 
>>>>> middle
>>>>> sail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The diagrams seem to suggest that the head of the asymmetrical 
>>>>> comes well
>>>>> below the top of the mast.  Especially with a sock, that should 
>>>>> keep the
>>>>> head of the sail well away from anything it could chafe on.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Quantum says absolutely nothing about a crane.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>>
> 
>

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