[C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler - Leak Location

Sun Dec 30 06:44:49 PST 2007

I found where the leak from the Aqua Lift muffler is coming from.  The box
is molded into a base that has 4 pre-drilled screw holes drilled into the
corners.  The box is screwed onto a base mounted to the hull.  The leak is
coming from the bottom of the box right next to one of the holes for a
screw.  It appears that when the box was fabricated and fiber glassed,
someone got a little careless at the corner and did not fare in very well
the glass.  The area around the leak is pitted and not smooth.  

I am betting that the thing has been leaking since commissioning.  However,
with the condensate for the A/C draining into the area behind the
transmission and a non-dripless packing gland for the first several years, I
simply did not figure it out that all the water in the bilge was coming from
the muffler and not the A/C and packing gland.  But over time, my sense is
that the leak got bigger and when it was all anti-freeze in the bilge, then
I knew beyond a doubt it had to be the muffler.  But note that every time I
ran my hands around the seam where the box fares into its base, it was
always dry because it was leaking from below.  

The root cause of the failure is speculation but until proven otherwise,
shoddy craftsmanship when the thing was fabricated and me not tracing the
leak back to its source much sooner (like before the motor mount brackets
rusted out) are what I believe occurred.

I also discovered another problem that I will post under a different subject
header - Hose Guard.

Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - #808
Columbia, MD

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Allan Field
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:50 PM
To: 'C320-List'
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler

I went to the boat today armed with all of the great ideas for removing the
aft hose from the Aqua Lift Muffler.  I had my hacksaw, strap wrench, hair
dryer, and WD-40.  The only thing missing was a helper.

Alas, I did not need any of these ideas or the helper.  Once I removed the 4
screws around the base and the hose clamps on the aft exhaust hose, it was
apparent that either the hose was very slightly oversized for the fitting or
the fitting was slightly undersized for the hose.  Regardless, the hose
needed absolutely no help in removing it!  It literally slid right off of
the fitting once I was able to get the box leveraged into a position where I
could lift it out.  That required removing 2 hoses from the engine plus the
wiring to the starter but once that stuff was out of the way, the old box
came out very easily and the new one slid right in.

What I did not do today was reattach the exhaust hose coming from the engine
to the box.  I put everything back together but that.  Deciding that the
premature failure of the box was probably due to engine vibration, I called
West Marine for a hump hose.  This is a piece of hose with a bubble in the
middle that is mounted between the exhaust hose and the box.  The bubble
flexes and takes the vibration instead of the hose or box.  WM only has
3-inch through 6-inch hump hoses, each at $45.00 per; I needed a 2-incher.

So I came home, Googled "Hump Hose" and found exactly what I was looking for
- a 2-inch hump hose at $20.00 plus $7.53 for shipping!  The hump hose
should be here in about a week.

What I have not yet done is determine where the failure is in the box.  I'll
post when that is determined.  But one other thing that I noted.  The
bracket for the motor mount is severely rusted.  I wire-brushed the rust off
today and will apply Rustoleum next week.  The leaking water apparently ran
forward, rusted out the bracket, then ran back into the bilge, staining the
bilge along the way.  I have quite a bit of clean-up left to do.

Thanks to all who gave advice.

Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - #808
Columbia, MD

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Scott Thompson
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:20 PM
To: C320-List
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler

Since I've never done this, please take with the appropriate dose of 
salt.  But every mechanic I've ever spoken to about removing exhaust 
hose gives the same advice:  Cut it off and replace it rather than try 
to remove it.  I readily admit that I don't know whether cutting it off 
is any easier than the alternatives already mentioned.

Scott

Bill Culbertson wrote:
> Allan,  despite what I thought was careful reading of this thread I've
only just now realized you've been talking about the hose leaving the
muffler heading aft (despite you having said that clearly up front and
describing how you'd already removed the engine->muffler hose - duh).  I
wondered why all the push pull directions were backward from what I was
envisioning.
> 
> I've forgotten what access is to that exhaust hose on the other side of
the hole in the vertical section of liner it passes through immediately
leaving the muffler heading aft.  I thought it was right there under one of
those access boards for the water pump or strut bolts.  If so then maybe
that's an easy place to use Bruce's strap wrench suggestion.  Also gets the
strap wrench person somewhat out of the way of the person yanking on the
muffler.
> 
>  -bill
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Allan Field <Allan.Field at comcast.net>
> To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:53:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler
> 
> Great idea!  I have a friend who is coming down to assist so we may give
> this a try.  Again though, the real problem is that the hose fitting is so
> long.  I either need enough room to move the hose aft or the tank forward
or
> both to get the hose off of the fitting - that will be the challenge.
> Thanks Bruce. - Allan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Heyman
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:11 PM
> To: 'C320-List'
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler
> 
> Allan,
> (this time with your name spelled right...sorry)  I was at the boat
> yesterday and can see why Catalina has to make a "special" to fit into
that
> space.  It looks to me like you would be able to fit a strap wrench on the
> hose, just past the pipe to the muffler.  You should then be able to apply
> heat while also twisting the hose to break the connection.
> Bruce
> Somerset #671 SoCal
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Allan Field
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 4:27 PM
> To: 'C320-List'
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler
> 
> David - My son-in-law, who knows about these things, recommended heat.
The
> fitting on the forward end of the muffler is probably 3 inches long.  I
was
> able to get the hose up 2 inches but then the hose was bent against the
> transmission and would not go any further.  So I heated the hose at the
> bend, that made the hose more pliable, and I was able to get it that last
> inch while continuing to apply heat at the hose end also.
> 
> I have already purchased the replacement which in retrospect probably was
a
> dumb move.  The current muffler failed in less than 450 engine hours.
Why
> would I think that I would get any longer out of a new muffler of the same
> make and model...  Only a fool repeats the same behavior over and over
> again, expecting a different outcome each time.  Guess we know what that
> makes me!  If and when muffler #2 fails, I'll be back on the list looking
> for a different option. And this has made me re-think the wisdom of
sending
> muffler #1 back to Catalina for repair and then keeping as a spare.
> 
> Allan S. Field
> Sea Shadow - #808
> Columbia, MD
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at catalina320.com] On Behalf Of David Nolte
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:26 PM
> To: C320-List
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Aqua Lift Muffler
> 
> Allan,
> 
> I'm curious as to why you are applying heat. Does it make the hose  
> more pliable in our current moderately cold temps?
> 
> It would seem to me that heating the hose would cause it and the  
> exhaust outlet to expand, thus making the seal tighter and more  
> difficult to remove the hose.
> 
> I have seen guys at a local boatyard use a tool (I'd love to get one)  
> that looks something like an enlarged dentist's pick, which they  
> slide into the hose end to pry the hose off of fittings. I'll look to  
> see if I can find anything like that in a catalog.
> 
> Are you replacing the muffler or having it serviced? When I bought  
> Beach House (#4), I inherited a very good mechanic, whose first  
> recommendation to me was to replace the muffler. The former owners  
> had sent it back to Catalina several times for repair. The repairs  
> never worked for very long. Late in my first season with the boat the  
> muffler went up again. I chucked it and my mechanic put an off the  
> shelf model in, which has worked fine for more than 3 years. If  
> you're interested, I'll try to  find out the make & model.
> 
> Happy Holidays,
> 
> David Nolte
> Beach House #4
> Severna Park, MD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 25, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Allan Field wrote:
> 
>> I am in the midst of replacing the Aqua Lift muffler and am looking  
>> for
>> advice from those who have gone before.  Using a hairdryer, I was  
>> able to
>> get the hose from the engine to the muffler off after a nominal  
>> struggle.
>> The problem is getting the hose from the muffler to the exhaust  
>> outlet off.
>> There simply is not enough room to get my hand in to pry the thing  
>> off no
>> matter how much I heat the hose.
>>
>> It seems to me that I have 3 options.  Obviously, I am looking for  
>> either
>> the option that works or the one I have not thought of!
>>
>> 1.    Unscrew the muffler from the base, heat up the hose, and try to pry
>> the muffler off the hose by tugging and wiggling the muffler  
>> towards the
>> engine.  I am not sure there is enough room to do this nor am I  
>> sure that
>> the hose will come forward a few inches with me (or if that even  
>> matters).
>>
>> 2.    Working with another person who is applying constant heat to the
>> hose, climb down into the aft locker and try to pull the thing off by
>> pulling aft.  I am not sure I can get the proper leverage from this  
>> position
>> however.
>>
>> 3.    Cut the hose off and replace it with a new one.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any helpful advice.
>>
>> Allan S. Field
>> Sea Shadow - #808
>> Columbia, MD
>>
>>
> 
> 
>
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