[C320-list] DOWN: Windlass, ST 60s, ST4000+...UP:~12 V in rail...

[Scott Thompson]

I had to reinstall my windlass a few years ago (the factory or dealer or
PO had installed it upside down!) and my recollection is that removing the
wood panel was the hardest part.  You pull it back into the V-berth, and
since it is a tight fit, getting one of the edges loose to do this was the
hard part.  My recollection is that you had to pull one particular edge
out first, but I don't remember which one.  After the panel was out, all I
had to do was roll over on my back and stick my head in the exposed space
below the fiberglass panel and I was then able to see and reach the
Windlass.  This is not a pleasant place to be working on a hot day.

By the way, you are removing the wood panel below the V-berth shelf, not
the one above the shelf, right?  Access behind the upper panel is blocked
by fiberglass but access behind the lower one is not.  You have to go in
from below unless you want to start cutting panels for better access.

I would not do anything with tools on the Windlass unless you are certain
that the breaker is off.  You don't want to create an accidental short on
those large cables going back to the battery.  Turn off the main battery
switch before putting a wrench up there near the terminals.

To that end, I would think about some preliminary first steps to isolate
your electrical leak:

First, when you say that you are getting voltage on the stern or bow
rails, how exactly are you measuring?  Between each rail and what other
location?  Are you running a lead all the way back to the batteries?  To
the windlass?  The chainplates?  This could matter.

Second, I would disconnect the lifelines from the bow and stern pulpits,
remove anything else attached to the rails that might carry a small
current, and then measure again in order to isolate the source, assuming
that the source is a stray voltage to a single point on the rail /
lifeline system.  (The lifelines could easily carry a voltage from the bow
to stern or vice versa.)  This should help isolate the problem.

Third, I think it far more likely that a voltage leak into the rail would
be coming from something attached to the rail than from the Windlass.  I
would be suspicious of the navigation light circuits.  I'm not sure how
current to the Windlass would energize the rail.  Maybe through the anchor
chain to the bow roller to ??? if you have chain on the windlass?  Another
not so obvious path would be a connection through the mast to a halyard to
the rail, or maybe some under the deck connection between the forestay and
the bow rail.  These would seem to be longer shots.

Fourth, weird things can happen and you might have to think outside the
box to puzzle this out.

On my last boat I once was sailing at dusk with the engine off and when I
turned on the running lights my oil pressure alarm suddenly went off. 
Since the ignition switch was off, this created great confusion.  We also
noticed that the nav lights were kind of dim, but since the batteries
needed charging that wasn't too much of a concern.  But how could the nav
lights be triggering the oil pressure alarm?  The oil pressure alarm is
wired to the ignition switch, which was off, and is a completely different
circuit from the nav lights.  How could it be energized?  Yet clearly it
was.  After checking to make sure that no oil had leaked out of the
engine, we started the engine, which silenced the alarm, but also made the
nav lights go off completely.  More head scratching.  Fortunately it was a
short motor back to our mooring.

It turned out that the problem was a broken grounding wire from my
distribution panel ground bus bar to the engine block.  The blower motor
and the stern light (located near each other on the transom) had been
wired with a common return wire back to the bus bar.  With the normal
grounding circuit broken, current to the stern light had found a weird and
non-obvious pathway back to ground.  Current leaving the stern light was
flowing backwards from the common ground wire, through the windings of the
blower motor, to the normally non-energized side of the ignition switch,
then forward through the oil pressure alarm circuit, which has an
independent path to ground through the oil pressure sensor on the engine
block, at least when there is no oil pressure.  Starting the engine raised
the oil pressure, broke the ground path through the pressure sensor,
silencing both the oil pressure alarm and causing the nav lights to switch
off.

Needless to say this took a while to figure out, although it was kind of a
fun puzzle.  The lesson is that you probably need to start by turning
everything off, possibly disconnecting some circuits, and then seeing what
must be turned on to cause the trouble, in order to try to isolate the
problem.  If this doesn't produce an obvious connection then start
thinking about current running through odd and not obvious pathways due to
poor ground connections somewhere.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Scott Thompson
Surprise, 653


> Thanks for the feedback, Chris Burti.  We have no
> speakers.  No installed stereo.  Instead we have a
> portable EGO waterproof ipod player that fits the bill
> nicely!  It follows us all over the boat, providing
> fine sounds along the way.
>
> I pulled the wood panel in the forepeak today, and
> didn't think I could easily get past the fiberglass to
> the windlass.  Do you pull it back or push it in, or
> is there another dimension I am not considering?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Willems #828 Chrysalis
> (to save confusion among the Chrisses, you can use my
> nickname, Sunshine.  Seriously, I earned this one from
> friends.  It's probably because I'm such a freakin'
> sunny optimist... buying a big boat... what was I
> thinking???)
>
> ****
>
> No answers, some thoughts.
>
> Your hull is close enough to mine that you may have
> the speaker wires
> installed under the seats by the factory as ours does.
> it is 12-2 wiring and
> looks like 120v house wiring. Your prior owner may
> have hooked them up to
> something like a 12v light instead of speakers and
> they may be shorting
> where they pass the through the hole in the tubing at
> the base where you
> can't see it or under the seat where you can.
>
> You don't have to cut fiberglass to get at the
> windlass, it just makes it
> easier. You can remove the wood paneling and access it
> for testing,it is not
> a bad job. I'd bet the breaker would go before the
> windlass in most cases,
> so I'd start there.
>
> I don't think it is very likely that the two problems
> are related.
>
> There is a grub screw on the anemometer that holds the
> vane to the shaft on
> the masthead transducer, if it is loose, your wind
> instrument will never
> hold calibration and it will act loopy. I wonder if
> the techies at Ray will
> get the two Chris's confused as I am also dealing with
> that issue right now
> as well. My problems were created initially by a
> lateral from a lightning
> strike on a neighbor's boat two years ago, but it is a
> low priority for me.
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Chris Willems <inquire
> at snet.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping this story has some evidence which will
>> help you to help me solve this (de)evolving
> problem...
>>  This is a long email, but I think the answer (or
>> clues?) may be in the details...
>>
>> Our story begins shortly after we took delivery of
>> #828 "Chrysalis" late last August (2007).  I had
> just
>> enjoyed a great swim off our luxurious transom, when
>> upon grabbing the stern pulpit I felt a shock.  I
> did
>> have a bit of a cut on my hand, so thought it might
>> just be the open flesh on metal.  I did investigate
>> with the crappy multimeter I had, and found there
> was
>> some current going through the rail.  I recently
>> tested it with a new multimeter, and at various
> points
>> around the boat, it is live.  The stern rail reads
>> about 11.8 V and the bow is about 11.9 V.   My
>> batteries are giving off 12.67 and 12.78 at their
>> terminals.
>>
>> This electricity may be why I'm getting a lot of
>> corrosion at the stanchion base - the fiberglass
> deck
>> has gotten fairly rusty on the bow stanchions.
>>
>> The windlass stopped working in September.  The
>> circuit breaker in the main saloon no longer lit.  I
>> am not brave enough to cut away the fiberglass in
> the
>> forepeak as heroic Jeff Hare demonstrated on the
> C320
>> web site... I may have to go down that road, but
> she's
>> too new to go and cut her all up like that...
> gulp...
>>
>> So this spring, after using West Marine's stripper
> to
>> strip all the old bottom paint off (it was flaking
> all
>> over the place).  I wanted to hire a soda blaster
> guy,
>> but my yard would not allow that.  I recoated with
>> Micron 66 and hope not to do that job for a few
> years.
>>  We rebedded all large deck hatches (they leaked),
> and
>> a full schedule of other maintenance jobs, including
> a
>> stuffing box that I may need to repack I'm the hot
>> stuffing box guy,  We launched in late June.
>>
>> In a seeming insult upon injury, the instrument
>> cluster is all a twitter.  I've been in touch with
> Ray
>> (yes, at this point we are on a first name basis)
> and
>> progress is being made.  So far I've been happy with
>> their support.  I I need to recalibrate the ST60
> wind
>> and check the paddle for functionality...
>>
>> I learned to sail on a sunfish.  That is a great
> boat
>> with no electronics.  Shame it's too tippy for the
>> admiral.
>>
>> Seriously, we love our new boat.  Thanks to anyone
> who
>> has read this far, and for chiming in if you've
> dealt
>> with any/all of these issues... perhaps multiple
>> times...
>>
>> Chris Willems & Lisa Peccini
>> "Chrysalis" #828
>>
>