[C320-list] New Sails, Advice Sought

[Ken Danko]

I inserted comments too...

Chris Burti wrote:
> I am a bit confused by some of the comments in your reply, and as the
> discussion may be useful for others who are undecided (I'm not trying to
> talk you out of your decisions ;~)). I'll stick my comments into your text
> for simplicity.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Ken Danko <ken320 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> Chris:
>>
>> I'm a little behind on email...Thanks for your advice. I already installed
>> the blocks on the sail to reduce friction but the problem is that the luff
>> is over tensioned when trying to get the right tension at the clew.  {OK,
>>     
>> I don't follow this part... luff tension is set by the adjusting the halyard
>> after the reef is pulled in and if you need a reef, you usually require full
>> tension on the clew, so I don't see how this happens }     
I set the halyard first, I marked it so I know where it should be. Then 
I winch in the reefing line. I can then release some of the luff tension 
by easing the halyard.

>> Plus you have to
>> use the winch and ideally someone else should push up on the boom  
>>     
>> {I use
>> the topping lift}.
>>     
I would have to leave the cockpit for that, either way it takes a second 
person and I single hand Grace about half the time.

>> Two riggers both said that they didn't recommend hooks at the goose neck.
>> The current plan is to attach a pad eye to one side of the mast and a cleat
>> to the other side. A  low stretch line will run from the pad eye through the
>> reef cringle and over to the cleat. The existing reefing line will only
>> tension the clew from the cockpit.     
>> {This pretty much how I have run our
>> reefing lines and the way it works for me with the OEM  jiffy reefing
>> system...When we bought our boat the lines were run incorrectly FWIW.}
>>
>> I just had a local metal shop fabricate a new luff gate plate, 1/8th inch
>> SS. It looks great but haven't had time to test it out while sailing, but
>> the slides don't hang up when moved by hand.      {I'd expect it to work
>> sailing if it works by hand, so you likely have a good solution}
>>
>> The problem with the dutchman (well there are a couple) is that even though
>> I have the right tension in the lines, the sail still doesn't flake
>> properly       
>> { I'm not sure here...on Commitment, it isn't perfect in high
>> winds, but is far better than any jack line system that I've ever used and
>> that has been quite a few....both homemade and manufactured}.   
The key thing here is that I almost always have high winds coming back 
to the marina (well, at least from April through October). It was 25 kts 
plus on Monday for instance.

>> To get the
>> right tension in the dutchman lines, the topping lift has to stay somewhat
>> tight which means that the sail battens get caught in it.    
>> { but only
>> while dropping the sail and then they free themselves as it falls}   
They get caught when tacking and when raising the sail. But they do free 
themselves when they fall.
>> Plus,
>> the dutchman gets twisted and no amount of time or effort seems to be able
>> to untwist it. Right now it isn't twisted but I could go to the boat
>> tomorrow and find that over night it twisted itself...very frustrating. 
>> { I
>> believe that has something to do with the way the core of the topping lift
>> line is laid. It is ugly and annoying, but so far hasn't affected
>> performance on Commitment. When I replace the topping lift, I am going to
>> try a low stretch line with a non-laid core}  
I have tried everything. I have even taken the whole thing down and laid 
it out carefully on the dock. It does sometimes get so twisted that the 
dutchman lines wrap two or three times around the topping lift.

>> I am buying the lazy jacks
>> this weekend, West Marine is having a sale on them. {I love a sale}
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> Chris Burti wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Ken,
>>> If you have firmly made up your mind, ignore this, but others may find it
>>> useful.
>>>
>>> I have had reefing rigged both ways on various boats we've owned and with
>>> a
>>> couple of mods, I have been very happy with the OEM reefing system on the
>>> C-320 especially compared to the traditional system with a hook.
>>>
>>> I really need to be able to single hand any boat we own as the Admiral
>>> can't
>>> pull on strings without risk of injury to her back.
>>> As I am not as agile as I used to be, things must work as designed or I'll
>>> deep six them. Biggest problem with the stock stuff we have on our C-320's
>>> is a dearth of cogent explanation, once you get them figured out, it seems
>>> like they work pretty well..
>>>
>>> First, the gate was missing when we bought Commitment and someone had
>>> fabricated one out of a door latch strike plate. It had rusted, so I
>>> ordered
>>> a new one. I had read the grumbling about the gates and read several
>>> suggestions on how they should be installed, so  I was very careful to
>>> make
>>> sure that its shape conformed to the radius of the mast and to align it
>>> very
>>> carefully so as avoid a snagging situation. It took a little trial and
>>> error
>>> and about twenty minutes time to get it right. Every time I go out now, I
>>> sailkote the slugs and the gate and as a result, the slugs very rarely
>>> hang
>>> up. When they do, I just ease the halyard a touch and they free right up.
>>> Once in a while, I need to go forward, but that rare occurance is
>>> acceptable
>>> as I almost always need to reef and unreef when we sail. Other than after
>>> removing the main, I have not had to adjust the gate in normal use since I
>>> replaced it in 2002 either.
>>>
>>> Second, I ran the reef lines through small blocks on the sail that are
>>> hooked to rings on the other side of the cringle. This took most of the
>>> friction out and really made the process "jiffy".
>>>
>>> I have had jack lines before and they are far better than nothing but not
>>> much better than OK. I like the Dutchman better, but likely would hate it
>>> if
>>> I hadn't ignored the recommendations and had zippers put in my sailcover.
>>> By
>>> doing this, I can adjust it when I put the sail back on and then just
>>> leave
>>> it set so that the lines are always taut when I tighten up the topping
>>> lift.
>>> If there is any slack in the lines, the sail is not controlled and the
>>> thing
>>> is worthless. If you dont have the zippers in the cover, you need to putz
>>> with the adjustment all the time and then jack lines are better.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ken Danko <ken320 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I just ordered new sails (North) and am going to make some changes. This
>>>> is
>>>> where I could use some advice from those of you who have been through
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> I am going to scrap the single line reefing system in favor of hooks at
>>>> or
>>>> near the goosneck. Has anyone else gone this route and if so, do you have
>>>> photos to show me how to rig this?
>>>>
>>>> One problem I have encountered in the past is with slides sticking at the
>>>> luff gate. I wish that they had put the gate much lower on the mast. Has
>>>> anyone figured a way to get the luff gate to fit better? It is pretty
>>>> flimsy
>>>> and I can't seem to get it to fit properly. Maybe I can get a new one
>>>> fabricated.
>>>>
>>>> Ronstan makes batten cars that don't require an external track. They call
>>>> this their Ballslide Batten System. My sail maker highly recommends
>>>> these.
>>>> Has anyone else installed these on their 320? And if so, do they work
>>>> well?
>>>> I went to Simply Sail Pacific hoping that Harken would have a 75% off
>>>> sale
>>>> on their external track and related hardware but no such luck. The North
>>>> guy
>>>> says that the Ronstan system will achieve 75% of the same results at
>>>> 1/6th
>>>> the cost.
>>>>
>>>> I am going to make some other changes. I know that there are strong
>>>> opinions pro and con in this group for the Dutchman System. I am going to
>>>> ditch it in favor of lazy jacks. (I have had both and MUCH prefer lazy
>>>> jacks.) I am also going to get a loose fitted main.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions/advice will be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ken Danko
>>>> Grace, #802
>>>>
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>>>>         
>>>
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>>>       
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