[C320-list] Seperate starting battery or......

[Warren Updike]

Brad, I have a binder on my battery project with circuit diagrams, cable
list, equip. purchased, etc. You are welcome to borrow it (Brad is two slips
from us,) and come onboard to see how it looks.

For others, I have a document with pictures I'm happy to share. Off-list,
send me an address and I'll return a CD.

There are a number of ways to approach a battery upgrade project. Mine is
only one; but, follows the approach of "Battery Upgrade #2" from the web
site.  

Many thanks to Jeff Hare who was a major help in planning this project.  I'm
obligated to pass it on.

Warren & Pattie Updike
Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay



-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Kuether [mailto:bkuether at comcast.net] 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:11 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Seperate starting battery or......

I took a look in that area last weekend when I was checking the water level 
in the 4Ds.

You CAN, get a group 27 in there, however has anyone thought of putting two 
of the little golf cart batteries there instead?

I would also like to understand what a typical bill of materials would look 
like for a seperate starting battery installation, minus the battery.  (It 
would make a great update on the 320I website)

My goal is to get this boat to the point I can do an entire week without 
worrying about running out of juice.  As you can see I am starting on the 
other end by minimizing the wattage requirements....  (LEDs)

-Brad, Mary, Monica, and Jarod
"Independence"
2004 Catalina 320 Hull 1006
Middle River, MD



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Vez" <jonvez at comcast.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fwd: Re: Re Batteries & Fridge


> Jack, there is room forward of your current batteries. I've done it as 
> well
> as many on this list. I use a Group 27 AGM (all my batteries are AGM)--
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Jack 
> McDonough
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:11 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fwd: Re: Re Batteries & Fridge
>
> Karl:
>
> This is all good information. I guess there might be room forward of my 
> two
> existing batteries. (Aft of them is the holding tank.)
> We've got a number of Catalinas in our club. I'll ask around and see if
> others have done something like you describe.
>
> jack
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karl Mielenhausen _/)" <c320 at suddenlink.net>
> To: "C320IA Discussion List" <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:59 PM
> Subject: [C320-list] Fwd: Re: Re Batteries & Fridge
>
>
>> Jack,
>>
>> On my 2000 model (hull 690) I found plenty of room to install the 
>> starting
>
>> battery just forward of the 2 4D's (which I turned into 4 GC2 golf car
>> batteries).
>> Being that this is a starting battery and should not get drawn down like
>> the house bank, you do not need a deep-cycle battery or a "combo" battery
>> for that matter. I happened to use a group 42 Walmart auto battery. I
>> wanted lots of cranking amps and side terminals. Others will tell you you
>> need the thicker plates and more rugged construction of a "made for a
>> boat" battery but this auto battery is working fine for me.
>>
>
http://www.catalina320.com/mediagallery/media.php?f=0&sort=0&s=2008111614275
> 2219
>>
>> Regards,
>> Karl Mielenhausen
>>
>> ------- Forwarded message -------
>> From: "Jack McDonough" <mcdonough5 at verizon.net>
>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Re Batteries & Fridge
>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:33:01 -0400
>>
>> Bob:
>>
>> Having grown up in Dover, I'm very familiar with Great Bay. Driving south
>>  from Dover, the marina is off to the right as one croses the bridge, if
>> I'm
>> correct. Off to the left, before the bridge, a number of boats are on
>> moorings. I always wonder how the owners get to them.
>>
>> Your battery configuration makes sense. I only wonder where you found the
>> space to install a separate starting battery. And what is it? A 12-volt
>> Sears marine battery? Also, although I have done my share of house wiring
>> (outlets, etc., mostly with 14-2 wire) and I installed new wiring and
>> lights
>> on our old Pearson 27, I'm reluctant to mess around with battery wiring
>> because I wouldn't really know what I was doing.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I'll continue to start the engine on Both and then switch from
>> 1
>> to 2 as appropriate to keep both batteries charged.
>>
>> Thanks for the tutorial. I'm only an hour away from Great Bay and would
>> like
>> to see your boat some time.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robert Seastream" <robert.seastream at comcast.net>
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Re Batteries & Fridge
>>
>>
>>> Jack, we're on a mooring at Great Bay Marina, six miles up the
>>> Piscataqua river from Portsmouth harbor, and wouldn't have it any  other
>>> way.
>>> Our reasons were:  Cheaper, less hassle than docking (although we can
>>> do that), and no noise (as would occur on a dock) from late night
>>> revelers returning from a night out.  We even have solutions to the
>>> fresh water/AC power/AC cooling issues.
>>>
>>> Regarding batteries:  Yes, the alternator only charges whatever  battery
>>> the master switch is set to (1, 2, or Both), so you must  choose
>>> accordingly.  What I (and many others) have done is to  substitute a
>>> dedicated starting battery for battery 1, then connect  the original
>>> battery 1 in parallel with battery 2.  Then use battery 2  for
>>> everything; having battery 1 as backup for starting if you drain  (both)
>>> batteries connected to battery 2.  Regarding moving the battery  switch
>>> while under power, the switch is of the 'make before break'  type.  If
>>> you look at the switch, it's impossible to pass through the  'off'
>>> position when selecting either battery or both.  Thus, the  alternator
>>> is never disconnected from a battery unless you turn the  switch to 
>>> off.
>
>>> When I upgraded the charging system on our boat, I ran  the (heavy
>>> gauge) alternator output cables directly (through a 150 amp  fuse at the
>>> batteries) to the battery bank rather than to the switch,  again making
>>> it impossible to disconnect the alternator from the  batteries.
>>>
>>> Bob Seastream
>>> Intuition # 906
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 26, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Jack McDonough wrote:
>>>
>>>> Irv:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm sure you're right about all that. The first time we used
>>>> shore power, I had to enlist the expertise of our daughter, the
>>>> engineer, to read the wiring schematic and advise me what to do. So
>>>> you see where I'm coming from.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> jack
>>>> 2003  #947
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irving Grunes" <igrunes at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <C320-List at catalina320.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:03 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Re Batteries & Fridge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jack,
>>>>> I'm not sure but I think that the engine alternator only charges  the
>>>>> battery
>>>>> that it is connected to.
>>>>> So if you use both batteries to start, leave it there until you  shut
>>>>> it
>>>>> down, then you will be putting charge into both batteries.
>>>>> One thing that I am sure of is that if you have both batteries
>>>>> connected in
>>>>> parallel, the higher charged battery will send current to the lower
>>>>> charged
>>>>> battery until both are at equilibrium.  So you lose the advantage  of
>>>>> having
>>>>> at least one battery with a higher charge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Irv Grunes
>>>>> 2001 #851
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Jack McDonough
>>>>> <mcdonough5 at verizon.net
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Irv:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always start the engine on Both (or ALL), to make certain I have
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>> juice to get it  going. Then I switch to either 1 or 2. I don't
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> what you mean when you say to switch to 1 or 2 after you STOP  the
>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>> Why not switch while it's running? Once it's stopped, what
>>>>>> difference does
>>>>>> it make which battery setting you're on unless you're running
>>>>>> refrigeration
>>>>>> or lights or something else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have discussed this battery subject over the years with any  number
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> boat owners and yacht yard personnel. I have learned that
>>>>>> (1) it's OK to run it on All; (2) It's not wise to run it on All;
>>>>>> (3) It's
>>>>>> OK to switch batteries while the engine is running (but, of  course,
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> turn it to Off.); (4) Everything in 1, 2 and 3 is right. (5)
>>>>>> Everything in
>>>>>> 1,2 and 3 is wrong. In other words, ask 10 people and you'll get 10
>>>>>> different answers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On a totally different subject, am I the only 320 owner on the
>>>>>> planet whose
>>>>>> boat is on a mooring? Everyone else on this 320 website seems to  be
>>>>>> at a
>>>>>> slip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jack
>>>>>> #947
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irving Grunes" <igrunes at gmail.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> To: <C320-List at catalina320.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [C320-list] Re Batteries & Fridge
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>>> No sense FREAKING
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is not advisable to ever have the batteries on both because  then
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> higher battery will try to charge toe lower battery with the end
>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> lower batteries.
>>>>>>> If you try to start the engine and either of the batteries won't  do
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> independently, then connect to both to get a little more power.
>>>>>>> Keep them
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> both until you stop the engine and go back to 1 or 2
>>>>>>> If you are out and know you will be running the engine for a  while,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>> the batteries to both so the engine generator will be charging
>>>>>>> both. As
>>>>>>> soon
>>>>>>> as you stop the engine go back to 1 or 2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re the fridge. When in the slip, with the charger on, the charger 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> connected to each battery independently.so there is no advantage  to
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> them on both. So leave the switch on one or two
>>>>>>> If you leave the fridge on and for some reason you lose dock  power,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> charger turns off and the fridge will just knock down the one
>>>>>>> battery and
>>>>>>> not both. Thats why you only want one battery on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At our slip on Sue Creek, the dock power is very sensitive to
>>>>>>> lightening
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so we just don't leave the fridge on.  And since the fridge cools
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> quickly, and  by the time we want a beer, its cold.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope this helps the question on the battery switch position
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Irv Grunes
>>>>>>> 2001 #851
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Karl Mielenhausen
>> Catalina 320 Hull 690
>> New Bern, NC
>
>