[C320-list] Electrical problem

[Chris Burti]

Most have recommended replacing the PM and I second the advice.

I went with two 4D Exide (COM-4D-P) commercial truck batteries . I recommend
them if you are not a liveaboard or hardcore cruiser.You can buy a pair for
about 60% of the price of a comparable marine deep cycle. Four years ago, I
bought two for a total of $250 from a local small town auto supply,

Go to a major battery manufacturer's web site and start examining the specs
closely. You will find that the batteries they build for heavy duty
truck/commercial service, closely match the specs for their deep cycle
marine batteries and are constructed similarly at substantially less cost.
Note that I am not inferring that they are the same. BTW, different
manufacturers spec thing in different ways. Engineers might have standards,
but the last time I tried to compare specifications between different
manufacturers it seemed like they tried to make line by line comparisons
difficult.

While the plates and separator mats may not be quite as heavy in the truck
batteries as the deep cycle marine, they are very, very close. Reserve
Capacity minutes are usually a bit higher inthhe truck batteries. Vibration
protection is very similar. You will likely give up a tad on battery life if
the plates are thinner, but your maintenance (or lack thereof) will have a
more significant impact on this aspect than any specifications. The average
sailor does not maintain their batteries at optimal levels as doing
so requires a fair amount of paying attention. In my experience, that is
mostly done only by liveaboards who spend a lot of time on the hook or
cruisers confined to a mooring or engineers. I haven't been able to detect
any difference in my Exide Commercials from the OEM Nautilus Gold 4D's that
came with our C-320 (with the exception of having to add marine lugs which,
in turn, adds a little extra maintenance).

The originals were special 400 reserve minute versions and are no longer
available. So, that fact led to my research. The new Nautilus Gold Deep
Cycles are only 250 reserve minutes and in the commercial truck version I
have 320 reserve minutes. In checking my numbers for another post, I
discovered that there is a new Prevailer Marine Starting/Deep Cycle with 360
minutes but I doubt that I would spend the extra money for such a small
difference. Mine were barely more than half the price of the 250 minute
version.

We spend several days on the hook when cruising and finished our
fourth season with no issues. Last year we didn't get out much but I did
have a few power outages that were comparable to a cruise where the reefer
drew the batteries down more than I care to.

Here is the site I used to spec out my 4D replacements on our C-320.
Exide Home
http://www.exideworld.com/

Application Guide (spec sheets)
http://links.exide.com/pdf/exide_2007_application_guide.pdf

BTW, I went with a Xantrex 20, crafted a set of lugs to mate the terminals
to the cables and rarely have to add any water to the batteries.

Fair winds,

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Mike Paris <mparis495 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm going to buy new batteries. Are there any potential problems with me
> just replacing the batteries? Mainly, could I damage the new ones if there
> is some unknown problem at the source of my electrical troubles.
>
> Secondly, wet cell or AGM? The West Marine price for a wet cell is $292 and
> an AGM is $539. Is the AGM that much better?
>
> Finally, should I replace the ProMariner with the Xantrex 20 just on
> principle? It doesn't seem to be giving me problems but many have strong
> feelings against the ProMariner.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> #734
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>
>
> Mike,
>>
>> A couple notes.  When you disconnect the batteries to measure them you be
>> sure to wait an hour of so to get their true voltage.  The 13.6v was likely
>> still showing the effects of just being on the charger.   More likely, the
>> voltage should be 12.5 or so after standing for a while.
>>
>> I'm not suspecting the charger here as much as just old batteries.  They
>> show the classic signs of dying batteries.  They charge fine but have no
>> CAPACITY.
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Allan S. Field" <allan.field at verizon.net>
>> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:30:20
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Warren - it is Mike that I am thinking still has the stock ProMariner.  If
>> so, that probably is the culprit for his problems. - Allan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Warren
>> Updike
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:19 PM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Allan, I don't have a ProMariner. Mine is a 50A LewMar that was on the
>> boat
>> when I bought it.  According to the manual, it will float the batteries at
>> 14.1V, although I don't leave it on when there is no DC load. The charger
>> relay for the starting battery kicks in at 13.7V.  Apparently, a constant
>> voltage around 14V will not hurt the batteries.  The previous set of
>> batteries lasted 7 years so I expect my charger works OK. ---Warren
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Allan S. Field [mailto:allan.field at verizon.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:50 PM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Warren - Does the ProMariner reach and maintain float?  I thought that was
>> the problem with it - it just kept on cooking and is not a true 3-stage
>> charger.  But I could be wrong...  Where is Jeff Hare on this?! - Allan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Warren
>> Updike
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:39 PM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Mike, according to the experts (not me,) the only way to assess the health
>> of a wet cell deep cycle battery is to perform a load test on it.  All
>> previous advice is useful.
>>
>> Water the batteries, clean all connections, and recharge. Monitor the
>> charging voltage to be sure the charger is working correctly. When the
>> charger enters float stage, disconnect and let the batteries sit for a
>> day.
>> After at least 24 hrs. test the voltage again on each battery. If still
>> high, they're good.  If dropped by more than a tenth or two of a volt, you
>> may have a problem. Have a load test done.
>>
>> As Karl suggests, you can test each cell with a hygrometer (compensate for
>> temp.) to determine if one cell is weaker than others.  I recall that if
>> the
>> cell to cell difference is more than .20, the cell is likely weak.
>>
>> Four years is on the near side of lifetime for deep cell batteries
>> constantly charged.  Consider that your charger could be the problem.
>>
>> If the tops of the plates inside the cells have been left high and dry for
>> any length of time, chances are your battery is done and can't be
>> recovered.
>>
>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>> Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
>> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bruceheyman at cox.net [mailto:bruceheyman at cox.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:20 AM
>> To: Catalina List
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Mike,
>> Also check the connections and the cables.  Several times I've come across
>> a
>> situation where a dodgey cable end or connection would handle the low
>> current demands of the fridge and GPS but balk at the couple of hundred
>> amps
>> required by the starter motor.
>> Bruce
>> Somerset 671 SoCal
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bruceheyman at cox.net
>> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:51:37
>> To: Catalina List<C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Mike,
>> Check fluid level and add distilled water as required. Charge over night
>> and
>> then check each cell with a hydrometer.
>> Bruce
>> Somerset 671 SoCal
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Mike Paris" <mparis495 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 18:01:57
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Subject: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>
>> Last weekend I went out for a day-sail. I usually put the battery sith on
>> "both" but I forgot and left it on "2" for the trip. The engine started
>> normally, I motored for about 30 minutes and then sailed for about 2 1/2
>> hours. When I went to restart the engine it was dead (no sound when
>> pushing
>> the start button). I changed the battery switch to "both" and the the
>> engine
>> started right up. The electrical draw during the sail was a fully cooled
>> refrigerator, the chartplotter and ST60 gauges. My boat is always plugged
>> in
>> to shorepower with charger on when in the slip. I have two wet-cell
>> batteries that I believe are about four years old (I've owned the boat for
>> 2
>> 1/2 years). I'm not knowledable about electrical systems so I'm looking
>> for
>> advice as to steps to take to find possible problems when I head down
>> there
>> this weekend.
>>
>> Thanks to all,
>> Mike P
>> #734
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Chris Burti Farmville, NC