[C320-list] Air Conditioning Installation
Dave & Denise Waugh
dwwdfw at verizon.net
Sun Oct 31 17:04:37 PDT 2010
I sent a message earlier today (actually #3 in this volume) but the body of the email has been deleted so it appears on the header only. Do I need to do something special with the Verizon Email account?
My question was: For the Air Conditioning installation, where was the water pump inlet installed?
Dave Waugh
"Dis and Dat"
#550
Oct 31, 2010 06:55:16 PM, c320-list at lists.catalina320.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Air Conditioning Installation Question (Larry & Melissa)
2. Re: Air Conditioning Installation Question (Rick Sulewski)
3. Re: Air Conditioning Installation (Dave & Denise Waugh)
4. Yanmar Winterizing Blues (Mike Ott)
5. Re: Yanmar Winterizing Blues (Paul Rickman)
6. Re: Yanmar Winterizing Blues (Jeff Hare)
7. Re: Yanmar Winterizing Blues (Paul)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 11:54:30 -0400
From: "Larry & Melissa"
To:
Subject: [C320-list] Air Conditioning Installation Question
Message-ID: <001701cb784a$bd0a4130$6900a8c0 at MAGGIE>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Steve. That information is very helpful. Any pictures you might have
would be great (theleibmans at verizon.net).
My plan for the installation was virtually identical to what you described
(including the shelf over the unit). The main issue I was still somewhat
undecided on was placement of the primary discharge into the salon. The unit
calls for a minimum of 70 square inches of discharge area and figuring the
small 4" discharge into the aft berth was only on the order of 10-15 square
inches I would still need to fit a grill of something like 5"x12" or 8"x8"
into the main salon. I'm a bit nervous cutting that big of a hole into the
bulkhead above the breadbox but noticed that the area just inboard of the
breadbox seemed to be mainly non-structural. Of course if you look on the
other side of that area it turns out it is in the aft berth not the locker.
I could put a plenum there since that space isn't really used (just need to
leave enough room to open the cockpit portlight). Do you happen to know
off-hand the discharge grill size you used?
Thanks again,
Larry
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:13:38 -0400
From: "Rick Sulewski"
To:
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Air Conditioning Installation Question
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Larry,
When we installed a 16.5k BTU reverse AC/Heat unit in the port locker we
made sure that a 5/8 inch layer of dense foam rubber was used to dampen the
unit's vibration so there was no direct transfer of vibration and noise from
the compressor by avoiding the unit's direct contact with the bottom of the
locker (that produced a sound box effect).
We also added a 2 x 10 inch board beneath the unit raises the condensate pan
high enough to allow the condensate to drain directly to the transom exiting
in a separate line alongside the propane locker drain. To avoid any concern
about a backflow of water into the locker should we experience any heavy
following seas we also installed a seacock in the locker between the
condensate pan and the transom exit line.
We discoverer that it was more efficient to fashioned some quarter inch
plywood to develop a tight plenum box fit to the air return grill located at
the foot of the aft cabin. We sealed the box with some foam insulation tape
and also installed a grill in the aft cabin door that comes in handy to
quickly cool down the main cabin during those 90 degree /90 percent humidity
days when the aft cabin is not being used. The tight fit to the intake grill
reduces AC cycling.
Likewise we also mounted the pump in the aft cabin and insulated the pump
with some foam rubber to reduce pump noise and made sure that there was no
transfer of vibration to the aft cabin panels beneath the mattress. The cold
air exit is above the bread box and works fine, cooling the bow cabin with
no other air exits necessary.
One tip we did learn was to raise the lower limit on the auto-variable speed
unit fan because some marinas experience voltage drops. The lower fan
settings on the variable fans speeds tend to create armature heat when the
voltage drops and the windings begin to smell as the fan is turning too
slow. The fan may be damaged permanently if the variable fan speed lower
limits are not raised if the motor is heated repeatedly due to voltage
drops.
Only regret is that we did not get around to installing the unit earlier
after putting up with less desirable results from the portable 5K unit!
Rick
My-Ria #277
............................................................................
............................................
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:27:52 -0400
From: "Wash, Steve"
To:
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Air Conditioning Installation Question
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Larry,
I bought a piece of 'ACX' (Good one side, rough other side, exterior
glue) at Menards. I think it was 5/8". Painted it white and glued it in
the bottom of the locker with 5200 adhesive. I did this because the unit
needs to be screwed down and there are a lot of wires and hoses running
under the locker and I didn't want to risk puncturing something.
I plan to use the remaining piece of the plywood to build a shelf over the
A/C unit to both recover the space and to make a better plenum for the air
return (it draws most of the air from the aft berth but some air is drawn
from the outside because the port locker doesn't have a tight
seal). Our A/C unit had rubber feet that are supposed to reduce the
vibration.
We mounted the strainer and pump under the aft berth (I can send you
pictures if you like). Another 320 owner in our marina (Michigan City), put
their pump under the galley sink. Each has its advantages ... When it is
under the aft berth it was easy to run the water line aft and over to the
port locker. We had the discharge water exit below the swim deck, aft.
When it is under the galley sink it is probably a little quieter. You will
need to fish the water line under the stove area, the aft berth and then to
the port locker. On that installation, they discharged the water out the
port side. I will tell you that the pump is much quieter than the A/C unit.
You are going to hear the A/C run. Everything is just too close. The good
news is, of course, is that you will be much more comfortable at the end of
the day. Ours has reverse cycle heating and it has been great at each end
of the sailing season.
BTW ... The most important tool to get for this job is a 'Step Drill'.
Look for it at www.mcmaster.com . It is the only thing to use when making
holes in fiberglass and plastic.
We have the main discharge into the salon above the storage over the
refrigerator. The air return is at the foot of the aft berth. We have a
small discharge there, too. That discharge is not ideal since some of the
discharge gets sucked back into the unit. We just didn't want to run a hose
from there around the back to starboard side (head of the aft berth). We
did not run a discharge to the V-berth. The salon and v-berth are
comfortable without it.
It took 2 of us about 2 days to do the job. There was a lot of thinking and
wondering time because we wanted to be careful not to put a hole in the
wrong place. Cutting the fiberglass for the grills was tedious and messy.
Don't rush this part because the fiberglass will chip. I did a lot of the
cutting by hand because the sawsall was so rough.
I hope this helps.
Steve
Hull 1029
-----Original Message-----
From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Larry &
Melissa
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 12:28 PM
To: Catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Air Conditioning Installation Question
Hi All,
I'm getting ready to install an A/C unit in Easy Going (not that we need it
now of course) and had a question or two for those of you who have your A/C
units installed in the port-side cockpit locker. How is the unit mounted?
Was there any kind of foundation built or wood mounting board installed or
was it just directly affixed to the locker floor? Was any stiffening added
to reduce fan/compressor vibration?
Also, where did you end up mounting your water pump?
Thanks in advance for any input.
Larry
Easy Going
Hull #609
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 06:45:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave & Denise Waugh
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Air Conditioning Installation
Message-ID:
<1182892008.513628.1288525543396.JavaMail.root at vms071.mailsrvcs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Ott
To: Catalina 320 Association
Subject: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
Message-ID: <640237.62859.qm at web80008.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
'Amanda Lu' is now high and dry and on the hard for the winter.? I've gone through all "pink" stuff water systems except the raw water system on the Yanmar, and it's giving me trouble.? I can't get the "pink" stuff to draw into the engine.? I usually just use a jug with a clear hose and stuff the hose up?the through-hull.? No luck, the engine won't draw the fluid into the engine.?? OK, must be a bad impeller, changed it; still no luck.? Disconnected the hose at the sea water strainer and tried to get the engine to draw from a bucket inside, no luck.? OK, maybe the raw water pump is shot.? I connect the garden hose with a regulator to the engine intake, turned on the hose?and start the engine again, got plenty of water out the exhaust.?
Anybody got an additional ideas ??? I've pretty much evacuated the raw water out of the system with these test. If I can't find the problem do you I'll be safe through a New England winter ?
Frustrated in CT,
Mike
'Amanda Lu'
#508
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:23:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Rickman
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
Message-ID: <416628.81227.qm at web84305.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Mike,
Try two things. Increast the RPMs, it won't do it in idle. Maybe 2000 should do
it.
Second, disconnect?the intake hose?put a funnel in. Pour the pink stuff into the
funnel
with the funnel held as high as you can get it with the RPMs up. If this doesn't
work? - ?????
Paul
Affinity 657
Bay Bridge Marina
Chesapeake Bay Maryland
________________________________
From: Mike Ott
To: Catalina 320 Association
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 11:52:12 AM
Subject: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
'Amanda Lu' is now high and dry and on the hard for the winter.? I've gone
through all "pink" stuff water systems except the raw water system on the
Yanmar, and it's giving me trouble.? I can't get the "pink" stuff to draw into
the engine.? I usually just use a jug with a clear hose and stuff the hose
up?the through-hull.? No luck, the engine won't draw the fluid into the
engine.?? OK, must be a bad impeller, changed it; still no luck.? Disconnected
the hose at the sea water strainer and tried to get the engine to draw from a
bucket inside, no luck.? OK, maybe the raw water pump is shot.? I connect the
garden hose with a regulator to the engine intake, turned on the hose?and start
the engine again, got plenty of water out the exhaust.?
Anybody got an additional ideas ??? I've pretty much evacuated the raw water out
of the system with these test. If I can't find the problem do you I'll be safe
through a New England winter ?
Frustrated in CT,
Mike
'Amanda Lu'
#508
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:27:28 +0000
From: "Jeff Hare"
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
Message-ID:
<269897946-1288546040-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2044439740- at bda755.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
I use a bucket in the cockpit with the hose led down through the hatch in the aft cabin.
I use a 5 gal bucket with a simple plastic shutoff valve on the side (at the lowest point). I also have installed a plastic T-fitting with a garden hose fitting that I simply plug into.
Search the website photo gallery for "winterizing" or "winterize" and look for a pic of my T fitting.
The T-fitting comes in a prestone antifreeze flush Kit you can buy at Walmart or an auto supply store for a couple bucks. It is the only part of the kit I used.
As for the pump not drawing, I had that problem with the pump prining being stubborn. Replaced the pump and the exhaust is now like a firehose by comparison. :).
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Rickman
Sender: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:23:53
To:
Reply-To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
Hi Mike,
Try two things. Increast the RPMs, it won't do it in idle. Maybe 2000 should do
it.
Second, disconnect?the intake hose?put a funnel in. Pour the pink stuff into the
funnel
with the funnel held as high as you can get it with the RPMs up. If this doesn't
work? - ?????
Paul
Affinity 657
Bay Bridge Marina
Chesapeake Bay Maryland
________________________________
From: Mike Ott
To: Catalina 320 Association
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 11:52:12 AM
Subject: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
'Amanda Lu' is now high and dry and on the hard for the winter.? I've gone
through all "pink" stuff water systems except the raw water system on the
Yanmar, and it's giving me trouble.? I can't get the "pink" stuff to draw into
the engine.? I usually just use a jug with a clear hose and stuff the hose
up?the through-hull.? No luck, the engine won't draw the fluid into the
engine.?? OK, must be a bad impeller, changed it; still no luck.? Disconnected
the hose at the sea water strainer and tried to get the engine to draw from a
bucket inside, no luck.? OK, maybe the raw water pump is shot.? I connect the
garden hose with a regulator to the engine intake, turned on the hose?and start
the engine again, got plenty of water out the exhaust.?
Anybody got an additional ideas ??? I've pretty much evacuated the raw water out
of the system with these test. If I can't find the problem do you I'll be safe
through a New England winter ?
Frustrated in CT,
Mike
'Amanda Lu'
#508
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 13:53:27 -0400
From: "Paul"
To:
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
Message-ID: <03A94F1E7E5C4F4982C2F1E86D681E5E at OwnerVAIO>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
If you have air coming through the intake hose at the connection before the
raw water strainer, it will not draw. Try a hose clamp on your hose on the
raw water side. Try to keep the hose to about 5' or so. My guess is you
are sucking air.
Paul Adison
C320 # 722
"Rough Draft"
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ott
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:52 AM
To: Catalina 320 Association
Subject: [C320-list] Yanmar Winterizing Blues
'Amanda Lu' is now high and dry and on the hard for the winter. I've gone
through all "pink" stuff water systems except the raw water system on the
Yanmar, and it's giving me trouble. I can't get the "pink" stuff to draw
into the engine. I usually just use a jug with a clear hose and stuff the
hose up the through-hull. No luck, the engine won't draw the fluid into the
engine. OK, must be a bad impeller, changed it; still no luck.
Disconnected the hose at the sea water strainer and tried to get the engine
to draw from a bucket inside, no luck. OK, maybe the raw water pump is
shot. I connect the garden hose with a regulator to the engine intake,
turned on the hose and start the engine again, got plenty of water out the
exhaust.
Anybody got an additional ideas ? I've pretty much evacuated the raw water
out of the system with these test. If I can't find the problem do you I'll
be safe through a New England winter ?
Frustrated in CT,
Mike
'Amanda Lu'
#508
End of C320-list Digest, Vol 937, Issue 1
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