[C320-list] Adjustable backstay
William Russell
RussellW at oacsd.org
Tue Feb 22 07:27:02 PST 2011
I'm a big fan of an adjustable backstay. I like the 8:1 purchase you can put on the 320's split backstay (non-stretch line shackled to one backstay chainplate, up through the block on the adjuster, then attached to a 4:1 purchase with two fiddle blocks and a cam cleat, secured to the other side of the split backstay.) It's easy to adjust and is the simplest way to put serious tension on the headstay as the wind builds (upwind) or to ease it off to power up on a reach or downwind. I think it's a critical adjustment to avoid being overpowered as the wind builds going upwind - flattens the entry on the jib and depowers the main. I wouldn't race (or cruise) without it.
Bill Russell
"Little Wing," C-320 #545
>>> <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com> 02/21/11 2:49 PM >>>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Cleaning Windshield (Bill Culbertson)
2. Re: Cleaning Windshield (Bill Culbertson)
3. Re: Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration (Dennis Harris)
4. Re: Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration (Dennis Harris)
5. Re: Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration (Dennis Harris)
6. Re: Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration (wflowe3 at aim.com)
7. Adjustable Back Stays (RUTHE SMALL)
8. Re: Adjustable Back Stays (Andrew Santangelo)
9. Re: Adjustable Back Stays (Jane & Ken)
10. Re: Adjustable Back Stays (Andrew Santangelo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:55:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Culbertson <billculb_a2 at yahoo.com>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com, c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Cleaning Windshield
Message-ID: <938019.71476.qm at web39422.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Plus it smells "lemony fresh" :)
I'm going to try this when we thaw here in Michigan. Thanks.
-bill culbertson
Harmony 859
________________________________
From: "Henderson, David" <dhender at allstate.com>
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 3:51:26 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Cleaning Windshield
An old salt down at my marina suggested using "Lemon Pledge" furniture
cleaner/polish on the clear plastic panels in the dodger. I had several
years of crud built up on them. I finally tried it last summer and was
very pleasantly surprised with the result. And I'll bet it's a whole
lot cheaper than most of those "marine" products on the shelf at WM.
Dave Henderson
Dottie B #1049
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:51:42 -0500
From: Thomas Bowman <tadbowman at optonline.net>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Cleaning Windshield
Message-ID: <001b01cbceec$ddc46330$994d2990$@optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I need to clean my windshield this year. Can anyone suggest products
that
they are particularly satisfied with?
Best,
Tom Bowman
Snow Goose 644
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:55:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Culbertson <billculb_a2 at yahoo.com>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com, c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Cleaning Windshield
Message-ID: <938019.71476.qm at web39422.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Plus it smells "lemony fresh" :)
I'm going to try this when we thaw here in Michigan. Thanks.
-bill culbertson
Harmony 859
________________________________
From: "Henderson, David" <dhender at allstate.com>
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 3:51:26 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Cleaning Windshield
An old salt down at my marina suggested using "Lemon Pledge" furniture
cleaner/polish on the clear plastic panels in the dodger. I had several
years of crud built up on them. I finally tried it last summer and was
very pleasantly surprised with the result. And I'll bet it's a whole
lot cheaper than most of those "marine" products on the shelf at WM.
Dave Henderson
Dottie B #1049
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:51:42 -0500
From: Thomas Bowman <tadbowman at optonline.net>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Cleaning Windshield
Message-ID: <001b01cbceec$ddc46330$994d2990$@optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I need to clean my windshield this year. Can anyone suggest products
that
they are particularly satisfied with?
Best,
Tom Bowman
Snow Goose 644
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 20:39:57 -0500
From: "Dennis Harris" <dharris02 at suddenlink.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
Message-ID: <427202CB569E4DB9B28E0FF3660D8A5B at Office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Bruce,
Thanks, I've downloaded the procedure.
Dennis Harris
C320
# 694 Washington, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Heyman" <bruceheyman at cox.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
> Dennis,
> My bet is that if you aligned the propshaft you would be very happy with
> the result. We used the process that is posted on our web site. Took a
> while and the math is a bit conveluted but the result was delightful.
> Bruce
> Somerset 671 SoSal
>
> Bruce Heyman
> (949) 289-8400
> BruceHeyman at cox.net
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: Dennis Harris <dharris02 at suddenlink.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 16:40:29 GMT+00:00
> Subject: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
>
> Just curious if other C320 owners experience this. I get a low level
> noise/vibration at certain speeds, and always have the fear that, despite
> what the mechanic said, the shaft may be striking the hull, but the
> frequency doesn't seem right. The boat is a 2000 model (#694) with Yanmar
> 3GM30F engine and transmission with 2.21 reduction. The sound is a little
> like a very low level "whump, whump, whump". The frequency increases with
> engine speed, but at higher speeds, the noise is largely overridden by
> engine noise and vibration does seem to increase significantly, so it may
> be noise more than vibration. The cutless bearing is snug and there is
> no movement in the shaft. However, in last year's haul out, on the
> forward edge of shaft strut, a small crack had come in hull fairing
> material. The three remaining sides around the strut were solid and
> there was no leaking into the boat. The four strut bolts were tight. In
> previous haul outs, this area was fine, and the noise/vibration that I
> have mentioned has always been present through out the 10+ years that
> I've owned the boat. There have been no issues (abnormal, frequent wear)
> at the packing gland. At ~2200 rpm, the intermittent sound occurs roughly
> 100 times/minute. With the 2.21 transmission reduction, this means that
> the sound occurs at a frequency of once per 10 shaft rotations, so in my
> mind, I have attributed the sound/vibration to be a harmonic of the
> combined system (hull, engine, shaft, etc.) and suspect that it's
> something not to worry about. But....what if?
>
> Do others experience this? Is it a problem that needs to be addressed,
> and if so, how?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dennis Harris
> C320 #694, Washington, NC
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 20:43:55 -0500
From: "Dennis Harris" <dharris02 at suddenlink.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
Message-ID: <54AFBBB95FA149ECA974F53FD6D01192 at Office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Irv,
Thanks for the suggestion. Any recommendations on who I should get to do
this (ideally some one in/accessible to NC)? If the shaft/engine
alignment/mount checks don't solve the problem, I get the prop balance
checked at next haul out.
Dennis Harris, C320 #694 Washington, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Irving Grunes" <igrunes at gmail.com>
To: <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
> Has your prop been balanced?
> Irv #851
>
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Dennis Harris
> <dharris02 at suddenlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Just curious if other C320 owners experience this. I get a low level
>> noise/vibration at certain speeds, and always have the fear that, despite
>> what the mechanic said, the shaft may be striking the hull, but the
>> frequency doesn't seem right. The boat is a 2000 model (#694) with
>> Yanmar
>> 3GM30F engine and transmission with 2.21 reduction. The sound is a
>> little
>> like a very low level "whump, whump, whump". The frequency increases
>> with
>> engine speed, but at higher speeds, the noise is largely overridden by
>> engine noise and vibration does seem to increase significantly, so it may
>> be
>> noise more than vibration. The cutless bearing is snug and there is no
>> movement in the shaft. However, in last year's haul out, on the forward
>> edge of shaft strut, a small crack had come in hull fairing material.
>> The
>> three remaining sides around the strut were solid and there was no
>> leaking
>> into the boat. The four strut bolts were tight. In previous haul outs,
>> this area was fine, and the noise/vibration that I have mentioned has
>> always
>> been present through out the 10+ years that I've owned the boat. There
>> have
>> been no issues (abnormal, frequent wear) at the packing gland. At ~2200
>> rpm,
>> the intermittent sound occurs roughly 100 times/minute. With the 2.21
>> transmission reduction, this means that the sound occurs at a frequency
>> of
>> once per 10 shaft rotations, so in my mind, I have attributed the
>> sound/vibration to be a harmonic of the combined system (hull, engine,
>> shaft, etc.) and suspect that it's something not to worry about.
>> But....what
>> if?
>>
>> Do others experience this? Is it a problem that needs to be addressed,
>> and
>> if so, how?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dennis Harris
>> C320 #694, Washington, NC
>>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 20:46:45 -0500
From: "Dennis Harris" <dharris02 at suddenlink.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
Message-ID: <322C4AD691BA4A029300EDA82DAA0911 at Office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-15";
reply-type=response
Karl,
I didn't find the Mainsheet article, but I did find a brief write up
(perhaps a forum message that would appear to be from you on the same
subject. I downloaded it and will check out my situation. Thanks
Dennis Harris
C320 #694
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Mielenhausen _/)" <C320 at suddenlink.net>
To: <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
> Dennis,
>
> My Mainsheet article
> (http://www.catalina320.com/article.php/20090227141444654) might be of
> interest. I had several similar symptoms.
> You may get lucky and discover loose jack bolts on one or more of the
> engine mounts, like I had.
>
> Karl
>
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:40:29 -0500, Dennis Harris
> <dharris02 at suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Just curious if other C320 owners experience this. I get a low level
>> noise/vibration at certain speeds, and always have the fear that,
>> despite what the mechanic said, the shaft may be striking the hull, but
>> the frequency doesn't seem right. The boat is a 2000 model (#694) with
>> Yanmar 3GM30F engine and transmission with 2.21 reduction. The sound is
>> a little like a very low level "whump, whump, whump". The frequency
>> increases with engine speed, but at higher speeds, the noise is largely
>> overridden by engine noise and vibration does seem to increase
>> significantly, so it may be noise more than vibration. The cutless
>> bearing is snug and there is no movement in the shaft. However, in last
>> year's haul out, on the forward edge of shaft strut, a small crack had
>> come in hull fairing material. The three remaining sides around the
>> strut were solid and there was no leaking into the boat. The four strut
>> bolts were tight. In previous haul outs, this area was fine, and the
>> noise/vibration that I have mentioned has always been present through
>> out the 10+ years that I've owned the boat. There have been no issues
>> (abnormal, frequent wear) at the packing gland. At ~2200 rpm, the
>> intermittent sound occurs roughly 100 times/minute. With the 2.21
>> transmission reduction, this means that the sound occurs at a frequency
>> of once per 10 shaft rotations, so in my mind, I have attributed the
>> sound/vibration to be a harmonic of the combined system (hull, engine,
>> shaft, etc.) and suspect that it's something not to worry about.
>> But....what if?
>>
>> Do others experience this? Is it a problem that needs to be addressed,
>> and if so, how?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dennis Harris
>> C320 #694, Washington, NC
>
>
> --
> Karl Mielenhausen
> Catalina 320 Hull 690
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:55:19 -0500 (EST)
From: wflowe3 at aim.com
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
Message-ID: <8CD9FEE7DFC8C75-C18-3BE5B at webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
How does one check/balance a propeller ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Harris <dharris02 at suddenlink.net>
To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 20, 2011 7:46 pm
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
Karl,
I didn't find the Mainsheet article, but I did find a brief write up
(perhaps a forum message that would appear to be from you on the same
subject. I downloaded it and will check out my situation. Thanks
Dennis Harris
C320 #694
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Mielenhausen _/)" <C320 at suddenlink.net>
To: <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Engine/Shaft Noise and Vibration
> Dennis,
>
> My Mainsheet article
> (http://www.catalina320.com/article.php/20090227141444654) might be of
> interest. I had several similar symptoms.
> You may get lucky and discover loose jack bolts on one or more of the
> engine mounts, like I had.
>
> Karl
>
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:40:29 -0500, Dennis Harris
> <dharris02 at suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Just curious if other C320 owners experience this. I get a low level
>> noise/vibration at certain speeds, and always have the fear that,
>> despite what the mechanic said, the shaft may be striking the hull, but
>> the frequency doesn't seem right. The boat is a 2000 model (#694) with
>> Yanmar 3GM30F engine and transmission with 2.21 reduction. The sound is
>> a little like a very low level "whump, whump, whump". The frequency
>> increases with engine speed, but at higher speeds, the noise is largely
>> overridden by engine noise and vibration does seem to increase
>> significantly, so it may be noise more than vibration. The cutless
>> bearing is snug and there is no movement in the shaft. However, in last
>> year's haul out, on the forward edge of shaft strut, a small crack had
>> come in hull fairing material. The three remaining sides around the
>> strut were solid and there was no leaking into the boat. The four strut
>> bolts were tight. In previous haul outs, this area was fine, and the
>> noise/vibration that I have mentioned has always been present through
>> out the 10+ years that I've owned the boat. There have been no issues
>> (abnormal, frequent wear) at the packing gland. At ~2200 rpm, the
>> intermittent sound occurs roughly 100 times/minute. With the 2.21
>> transmission reduction, this means that the sound occurs at a frequency
>> of once per 10 shaft rotations, so in my mind, I have attributed the
>> sound/vibration to be a harmonic of the combined system (hull, engine,
>> shaft, etc.) and suspect that it's something not to worry about.
>> But....what if?
>>
>> Do others experience this? Is it a problem that needs to be addressed,
>> and if so, how?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dennis Harris
>> C320 #694, Washington, NC
>
>
> --
> Karl Mielenhausen
> Catalina 320 Hull 690
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:10:05 -0800
From: RUTHE SMALL <sailmiss at msn.com>
To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.com>
Subject: [C320-list] Adjustable Back Stays
Message-ID: <BAY156-w574812925F3DF7630A5B8ED6D90 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
There is an article in the new "Mainsheet" about installing adjustable backstays (or a backstay tensioner) on a C36MKII. Have any of you done this on a 320? If so, what results did you get. I am not currently racing, but dealing with endless frustration being beaten by friends in a tricked out C30 and a C310. I was hoping this would enable me to point higher and do better when close hauled.
Sam Wagner
RUTHSM (Hull 74)
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:58:18 -0700
From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Adjustable Back Stays
Message-ID: <A3F8CAB1-0E43-4154-87F7-87110654B83D at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Hello Sam,
I have a hydraulic backstay on "Dawn Treader". It did help with pointing upwind and speed.
The C320 should beat the C30 and C310, however if they are tricked out every little bit helps. I also went with a autoprop folding prop (HUGE difference), fin keel (huge difference too), stiffer sheets and halyards, racing sails, grauhauer traveler and gennoa trim cars, and extra winches. Add experience to the crew and we began to win or place in many races on Lake Michigan out of Holland. So every little bit helped.
Andrew
C320
#333
Dawn Treader
San Francisco
On Feb 21, 2011, at 9:10 AM, RUTHE SMALL wrote:
>
> There is an article in the new "Mainsheet" about installing adjustable backstays (or a backstay tensioner) on a C36MKII. Have any of you done this on a 320? If so, what results did you get. I am not currently racing, but dealing with endless frustration being beaten by friends in a tricked out C30 and a C310. I was hoping this would enable me to point higher and do better when close hauled.
> Sam Wagner
> RUTHSM (Hull 74)
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:41:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jane & Ken <obuoy4848 at sbcglobal.net>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Adjustable Back Stays
Message-ID: <703409.80119.qm at web82604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Sam,
?? The article is basic backstay, adjustment? works for nearly any boat with a split backstay. As Andrew states, the speed of the boat is affected by many things--sails and folding/feathering prop--sail shape (adjustment)--crew experience--smooth bottom--attention to wind direction and? wind shifts.? Yes, the backstay adjuster will help with pointing; however the most improvement for speed is a clean/smooth bottom and a prop with minimum drag.
Ken? OBUOY? #219
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com> wrote:
From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Adjustable Back Stays
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Date: Monday, February 21, 2011, 10:58 AM
Hello Sam,
I have a hydraulic backstay on "Dawn Treader".? It did help with pointing upwind and speed.?
The C320 should beat the C30 and C310, however if they are tricked out every little bit helps.? I also went with a autoprop folding prop (HUGE difference), fin keel (huge difference too), stiffer sheets and halyards, racing sails, grauhauer traveler and gennoa trim cars, and extra winches. Add experience to the crew and we began to win or place in many races on Lake Michigan out of Holland.? So every little bit helped.
Andrew
C320
#333
Dawn Treader
San Francisco
On Feb 21, 2011, at 9:10 AM, RUTHE SMALL wrote:
>
> There is an article in the new "Mainsheet" about installing adjustable backstays (or a backstay tensioner) on a C36MKII.? Have any of you done this on a 320?? If so, what results did you get.? I am not currently racing, but dealing with endless frustration being beaten by friends in a tricked out C30 and a C310.? I was hoping this would enable me to point higher and do better when close hauled.
> Sam Wagner
> RUTHSM (Hull 74) ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ?
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:37:19 -0700
From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Adjustable Back Stays
Message-ID: <D174B73B-86DE-43A7-B157-907CF0291EBC at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Sam,
Just to add what Ken said, a clean boat bottom is very important. We had a very smooth bottom, but that was at best a so-so gain if anything (but can be very expensive). Clean bottom is critical - with plant life build up it is like dragging a rug under your boat!
I will say though switching from the wing keel to the fin keel was as almost a profound speed change as the propellor. First off you lose 400lbs - less weight to drag around. Secondly, the boat seemed to point at least 5 deg better to windward. This is a very big difference between winning and losing in a race.
We haven't raced in 2 years with "Dawn Treader", but she does have a pep in her step and is very responsive. Of course she does win those "informal" races on the water. :-)
Andrew
C320
#333
Dawn Treader
San Francisco
On Feb 21, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Jane & Ken wrote:
> Sam,
> The article is basic backstay, adjustment works for nearly any boat with a split backstay. As Andrew states, the speed of the boat is affected by many things--sails and folding/feathering prop--sail shape (adjustment)--crew experience--smooth bottom--attention to wind direction and wind shifts. Yes, the backstay adjuster will help with pointing; however the most improvement for speed is a clean/smooth bottom and a prop with minimum drag.
> Ken OBUOY #219
> --- On Mon, 2/21/11, Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Adjustable Back Stays
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Date: Monday, February 21, 2011, 10:58 AM
>
>
> Hello Sam,
>
> I have a hydraulic backstay on "Dawn Treader". It did help with pointing upwind and speed.
>
> The C320 should beat the C30 and C310, however if they are tricked out every little bit helps. I also went with a autoprop folding prop (HUGE difference), fin keel (huge difference too), stiffer sheets and halyards, racing sails, grauhauer traveler and gennoa trim cars, and extra winches. Add experience to the crew and we began to win or place in many races on Lake Michigan out of Holland. So every little bit helped.
>
> Andrew
>
> C320
> #333
> Dawn Treader
> San Francisco
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 9:10 AM, RUTHE SMALL wrote:
>
>>
>> There is an article in the new "Mainsheet" about installing adjustable backstays (or a backstay tensioner) on a C36MKII. Have any of you done this on a 320? If so, what results did you get. I am not currently racing, but dealing with endless frustration being beaten by friends in a tricked out C30 and a C310. I was hoping this would enable me to point higher and do better when close hauled.
>> Sam Wagner
>> RUTHSM (Hull 74)
>
End of C320-list Digest, Vol 1032, Issue 1
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