[C320-list] fin vs. wing keel

[wflowe3 at aim.com]

 I know the question was about experiences grounding with a wing keel but thought I'd throw in experiences with my fin keel anyway.  I sail an inland lake and until this year, I'd never grounded. This year It happened twice, once while informally racing a friend with a wing (not a 320) and I followed him around a point, he made it I didn't. Winds were probably 15 to 20 and I was moving very well until the stern lifted up in the air and the boat stopped. I immediately dumped the sails, started the engine and was able to back out of the slot I'd cut in the mud ( I also passed my friend bit it took longer).  The second time was apparently sailing into a submerged tree and was able to keep sailing through it into deeper water. Either way, I didn't like it.

Bill

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan S. Field <allan.field at verizon.net>
To: C320-List <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: [C320-list] fin vs. wing keel


It really depends what the bottom is and how hard you go in.  With 20 knots

of wind on the stern and motoring at 6 knots, we went into mud.  The wing in

this case acts like a sucking anchor; the boat was stuck until we got a tow.

Even tried kedging with an anchor and the boat never budged.  And you really

need to be careful trying to power off as all the muck the prop stirs up

comes up through the engine seawater intake and can foul things from there.

We have gone aground several other times but in soft stuff at lower speeds

and were able to get off, once with putting 6 of us leaning as far out as we

could to port to pop one side of the wing out of the mud.  For the

Chesapeake Bay, I think that a wing is the way to go, try to be careful, and

know you may need help if you do go in.  A fin on the Bay, at a 6-foot

draft, would further limit where we could get into.  On my previous boat, I

had a 4-foot draft with a fin and was able to use a spinnaker pole to push

off; there is no way I could do that with this heavier boat with a wing

keel.



And now the fun starts - why does Allan go aground so much?  Because he

sails a lot?!



Hope this helps.



Allan S. Field

Sea Shadow - #808

Columbia, MD



-----Original Message-----

From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com

[mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Flyingmonkey

Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:15 AM

To: C320-List at Catalina320.com

Subject: Re: [C320-list] fin vs. wing keel



I'd like to hear from those who have actually experienced a grounding with

the wing keel. This is my first wing keel vessel and I'd like to know what

to expect when it happens. I'm a realist when it comes to these things.

There are those who have run aground and those who have not "yet" run

aground. 



Thanks,

Lou Hodac

S/V Blue Moon

Hull#702



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 29, 2011, at 11:00 AM, Andrew Santangelo <andrew_santangelo at mac.com>

wrote:



> Hello All,  

> 

> I would also add the fin keel works for most of the great lakes.  We had

some close calls in the Kalamazoo River in Saugatuck off Lake Michigan,

otherwise the fin keel also works great in this region.  

> 

> The big issue is if you plan to race your vessel at all and want a chance

to place you really need to go to the fin keel - the pointing ability and

carrying less mass is a huge difference.  Now I cruised extensively all over

the great lakes before racing and I still cruise quite a bit and I have to

say pointing better towards my destination and going a tad faster to beat

some coming weather is an added boost I love. I have also see a few wing

keels run aground.  It is not pretty getting off vs. a fin keel.    When

sailing in shallow water, I really try to avoid cutting it close regardless

of fin or wing keel.  Of course that is what GPS, chart plotters and tide

charts are for.

> 

> Regarding west coast sailing since I did the massive move/shipping of Dawn

Treader to SFO - lots of wind, you fly with the tides (weather you want to

or not), and a fin keel is totally fine.

> 

> Best Regards,

> Andrew 

> 

> C320

> "Dawn Treader"

> #333

> San Francisco

> 

> 

> 

> On Oct 29, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Brad Kuether wrote:

> 

>> If you can sail comfortably in your waters without worrying about going

aground get the fin.  The performace difference is remarkable.   But if you

have any doubt on depth, you open up a LOT of options with the wing.  And to

be honest, I move along OK.  (folding prop really helps here...) Pointing is

a different matter.  I find with the 150 up front and sheeted in tight, I do

better, but nothing great.

>> 

>> My prior C&C had a 5'4" fin, and that was boarderline.  I did OK in the

upper Chesapeake.  Some anchorages were out of scope.

>> 

>> 6 feet plus under a Catalina 320?  No way.  Not here.

>> 

>> -Brad, Mary, Monica, and Jarod

>> "Independence"

>> 2004 Catalina 320 Hull 1006

>> Middle River, MD

>> 

>> PS - First snowfall of the season has begun in earnest.  Its supposed to

be bright and sunny with highs still in the low 60s!!!!!!

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Burti" <clburti at gmail.com>

>> To: <C320-List at catalina320.com>

>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:15 PM

>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] fin vs. wing keel

>> 

>> 

>> The simplest rule of thumb is for East Coast cruising...get a wing

>> keel...West Coast, a fin is fine.

>> 

>> There is simply too much thin water South of Norfolk not to take

>> advantage of the extra foot of clearance..

>> 

>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Gene Helfman <genehelfman at gmail.com>

wrote:

>>> Dear all: In our ongoing search for a 320 (ca. 2000 +/-), we've run into

a

>>> mixture of opinions on the qualities of the shallow vs. deep draft

boats.

>>> We have a harbor and hoist situation in our home port that makes 6 ft

draft

>>> problematic but not impossible. Would anyone like to chime in on the

costs

>>> and benefits of the wing keel boats (of which fewer were produced and

are

>>> harder to find) vs. the deeper-draft fin keel boats? We intend to cruise

>>> not race so faster turning isn't much of an issue.

>>> 

>>> thanks,

>>> gene

>>> --

>>> Gene Helfman, Professor Emeritus

>>> Odum School of Ecology, University of Georgia

>>> PERMANENT address:

>>> 498 Shoreland Dr., Lopez Is., WA 98261

>>> (360) 468-2136

>>> genehelfman at gmail.com

>>> 

>>> "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day,

>>> Teach a man to fish and he'll deplete the

>>> oceans."

>>>