[C320-list] Another battery-related question

[Dean Vermeire]

Hi Mike,

I appreciate your concern.  However, you needn't worry.  I had just 
never seen a battery this big before, and it threw me off.  There is not 
a lot of need for that much capacity on a lake in Kansas.  The rest is 
not new to me.  I've been sailing for 40 years, have raced quite a bit, 
have had boats with diesel engines, outboards, etc.  I originally 
majored in Electrical Engineering (now you know why I changed majors).

Not only that, but I have this wonderful list as a resource. :-)

The only reason I emailed anyone today was that I am an hour away from 
the boat and left the manuals on the boat this weekend.

However, I do appreciate your concern and your input.

Thanks,
Dean

On 9/6/2011 7:30 PM, Mike Ott wrote:
> Dean,
> > From what I have read, I'm sorry but I have to say your scaring me. I would
> suggest for your safety and that of your family and crew, that you stop sailing
> and spend what ever time you need to go through every aspect of your boat.  Look
> in every locker and under every sole board, and understand where every element
> of your mechanical and electrical system functions before you go back to sea. 
> If you are unable to do this I would suggest you hire a surveyor or marine
> mechanic to help you through it. 
> Mike
> 'Amanda Lu'
> #508
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dean Vermeire<dean at vermeire.us>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Tue, September 6, 2011 7:27:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>
> For those of you following along, we've found the answer.  In my line of
> work (software) we would call this one "PEBCAK" (Problem Exists Between
> Chair And Keyboard).
>
> Whereas I assumed that the previous owner had put in one big-ass 4D
> battery in place of two smaller batteries, I believe now that I will
> find another 4D battery in the compartment just forward of the first. 
> Who knew???  That really explains a lot of things!
>
> Thank you all for being helpful, kind, and patient.  Turns out that
> those big ballast boxes down there are actually batteries!
>
> Name Withheld to Protect the Guilty.
>
>
>
> On 9/6/2011 4:47 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>> This might indicate that the red power cable you hooked up initially to your
>> new battery was the one that powers the DC Panel.
>>
>> The boat comes from the factory with 2 - 4D sized semi-deep cycle batteries.
>> Most likely, one of them died and he just removed it from the system.  The
>> only wire he wouldn't have had any use for was the large ground Jumper that
>> connects both Negative terminals.  He MAY have also removed the cable from
>> position "2" on the switch to avoid having this wire hanging around which
>> would become live whenever "both" was enabled on the switch.  That would
>> pretty much explain what you're seeing.
>>
>> So... I think you need a Chunk of red 2/0 cable to connect between the
>> switch's battery position 2 and the new battery's positive post.  And a
>> chunk of Black or Yellow 2/0 cable to connect both battery Negative
>> terminals together.  Then, you're off to the races...
>>
>> BTW, your boat is only 38 hulls off of ours, so the stock wiring would be
>> virtually identical.  I would shut off the AC power and remove the wooden
>> panel where the battery switch is located and check to see if this is the
>> case.  To do that, you just need to remove a few screws that hold the panel
>> in place (also the blocks that hold vertical upright in place).  There's an
>> AC outlet there so that's why you should kill the AC power first, and also
>> wouldn't hurt to disconnect either the ground wires from the batteries to
>> prevent any accidents there also..
>>
>> Cheers!
>> -Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Dean Vermeire
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:28 PM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> Yes, I selected "1", "2", but not "All" when I had only one set of cables
>> attached to the battery.  What confused me was that I had power to the radio
>> with the appropriate battery selected, but no juice to the engine.
>>
>> All I can figure is that there is something unusual in the wiring that was
>> done when a previous owner put in the one ginormous 4D battery, rather than
>> two batteries.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dean
>>
>> On 9/6/2011 4:21 PM, Jane&   Ken wrote:
>>> A thought---If the 'new' group 27 was initially connected as indicated,
>> and batt 1 was selected without any start power----then the 'new' battery
>> was connected to the 'othr' cables and selector batt 2 resulted in nothing--
>> DEAN, did you also turn the selector to batt 1 , then batt 2, then batt all,
>> without any success??  My hull #219 had the # 1 / # 2 backward.
>>>        However, Jeff's comments are correct and should be followed when
>>> adding the two batteries--and a dedicated group 27 starting battery.
>>> Ken, OBUOY #219
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 9/6/11, Jeff Hare<catalina at thehares.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Jeff Hare<catalina at thehares.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 3:31 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> This should work. If the 1-2-both switch is acting like an on/off then the
>> new battery probably wasn't hooked up quite right.
>>> In proper hookup, both battery negatives should be connected directly
>> together. One heavy red from one battery positive should go to the "1" post
>> of the switch, the second heavy red should go to the "2" post on the switch.
>> The "C"ommon post of the switch goes to the starter and the "house" power
>> panel.
>>> The 4awg red cables are usually shore power charger and windlass power.
>>>
>>> Check carefully for the 3 foot section of black 2/0 gauge cable that is
>> the key ground between both batteries. If the prev owner only had one
>> battery, he may have also disconnected that jumper and left it in the
>> compartment somewhere. You need that.
>>> -jeff
>>> -jeff
>>>
>>> Dean Vermeire<dean at vermeire.us>   wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>
>>> I'm familiar with the wiring that you've described. Makes perfect sense.
>>>
>>> In my case, there was only one battery to start with. Both positive
>>> cables, as well as the two heavy ground cables and the smaller ground
>>> cable were connected to the one 4D battery. There was no jumper.
>>>
>>> When I replaced the 4D battery with a group 27 battery, I found that I
>>> had to connect all cables the way I had found them, which sounds
>>> obvious. What surprised me was that I couldn't have one battery
>>> connected to just one set of cables with the switch set to that
>>> battery and have the engine start. Basically, the two battery switch
>>> really only acts as an on / off switch when both sets of cables are
>>> connected to only one battery.
>>>
>>> On 9/6/2011 10:14 AM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>>> We can only speculate here without some pictures of the wiring you're
>> referring to, but what may have happened was that you didn't get all the
>> grounds connected.
>>>> The starter/engine ground connects via heavy cable to the aft most
>> battery, then a jumper continues to the forward battery. The forward battery
>> typically has the windlass ground attached also. Is it possible you didn't
>> get the heavy ground between the batteries connected? All grounds need to be
>> connected.
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Dean Vermeire<dean at vermeire.us>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>
>>>> You'd think that all possible questions have been asked by now, but I
>>>> came up with another this weekend. When we got out to the boat for a
>>>> nice long weekend and were ready to head out, the engine would not
>>>> start. The batteries just didn't have enough juice for it.
>>>>
>>>> This is the first time I have had to get at the batteries on this
>>>> boat, so please forgive the stupidity here! When I got at the
>>>> batteries, I found that there was really only 1 there - a 4D truck
>>>> battery (which others have recommended lately). That's fine. Nice to
>>>> know. I ran over to the marina store (the only place open on Sunday)
>>>> and bought a Group 27 Deep Cycle battery. I will probably put in a 4D
>>>> again, since the battery tray fits a 4D perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> When I hooked up the new battery. I only connected one set of battery
>>>> cables. I put the switch on "1". The radio, instruments, VHF, etc.
>>>> all worked fine, but the engine did not turn over. Not even a click.
>>>> I switched the cables on the battery and put the switch on "2". Same
>>>> thing. Finally, I put the cables the way I had found them, with both
>>>> sets of cables hooked to the one battery. I probably put the switch
>>>> on "All", although I don't understand what difference it would make.
>>>> The engine started right up.
>>>>
>>>> The boats I have had in the past had two batteries. I made it a habit
>>>> of switching to just one battery once the engine was off, to make
>>>> sure I would have enough power to start up again later. Having both
>>>> sets of cables on one battery seems to be contrary to that idea.
>>>>
>>>> So, why didn't the engine have power when I had just one set of
>>>> cables on the battery and have the switch set to that battery number?
>>>>
>>>> Humbly,
>>>> Dean Vermeire
>>>> Moonstruck II (#847)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
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