[C320-list] Another battery-related question
Robert Seastream
robert.seastream at comcast.net
Wed Sep 7 12:44:14 PDT 2011
While a shelf is likely necessary for wet cell batteries, my start
battery is an AGM. Thus I merely set it in the available space in
front of the forward house battery. Apparently gravity works; it
hasn't moved since so placed four years ago despite sailing excursions
in 'spirited' (15-20 kt winds gusting to 25, 4-6 foot seas) conditions.
Bob Seastream
603-475-4410
On Sep 7, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Dean Vermeire wrote:
> Hi Warren,
>
> That makes good sense. I appreciate the input. I have no doubt
> that I am up to the task.
>
> Thanks,
> Dean
>
> On 9/7/2011 9:31 AM, Warren Updike wrote:
>> Dean, you may be a seasoned sailor; but, if you've never cruised a
>> boat with
>> refrigeration, you may not realize how much power is required.
>> I've found
>> that our #62 uses about 40-50A per day depending on weather and such.
>>
>> Without a separate starting battery, the two 4Ds have to provide
>> start,
>> lighting, refer, and etc. Astute battery management via the main
>> switch is
>> necessary to keep the banks charged. I found that a major pain and
>> so I did
>> the battery upgrade somewhat as outlined on our web site. A house
>> bank of 2
>> 4Ds in parallel yields close to 400A. If the batteries are in good
>> shape
>> and fully charged, I can sit at anchor for 3-4 days without charging.
>> That's about the most sitting we do.
>>
>> So, now you have a good GP27 deep cycle battery. I suggest you
>> install this
>> as your starting battery. The most difficult part of the upgrade
>> project
>> will be making and installing the shelf for the starting battery.
>> There is
>> lots of moral support available on this list if you do this project.
>>
>> Warren& Pattie Updike
>> 1994 C320 #62 "Warr De Mar"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dean Vermeire [mailto:dean at vermeire.us]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:03 PM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I appreciate your concern. However, you needn't worry. I had just
>> never seen a battery this big before, and it threw me off. There
>> is not
>> a lot of need for that much capacity on a lake in Kansas. The rest
>> is
>> not new to me. I've been sailing for 40 years, have raced quite a
>> bit,
>> have had boats with diesel engines, outboards, etc. I originally
>> majored in Electrical Engineering (now you know why I changed
>> majors).
>>
>> Not only that, but I have this wonderful list as a resource. :-)
>>
>> The only reason I emailed anyone today was that I am an hour away
>> from
>> the boat and left the manuals on the boat this weekend.
>>
>> However, I do appreciate your concern and your input.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dean
>>
>> On 9/6/2011 7:30 PM, Mike Ott wrote:
>>> Dean,
>>>> From what I have read, I'm sorry but I have to say your scaring
>>>> me. I
>> would
>>> suggest for your safety and that of your family and crew, that you
>>> stop
>> sailing
>>> and spend what ever time you need to go through every aspect of
>>> your boat.
>> Look
>>> in every locker and under every sole board, and understand where
>>> every
>> element
>>> of your mechanical and electrical system functions before you go
>>> back to
>> sea.
>>> If you are unable to do this I would suggest you hire a surveyor
>>> or marine
>>> mechanic to help you through it.
>>> Mike
>>> 'Amanda Lu'
>>> #508
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dean Vermeire<dean at vermeire.us>
>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>> Sent: Tue, September 6, 2011 7:27:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>>>
>>> For those of you following along, we've found the answer. In my
>>> line of
>>> work (software) we would call this one "PEBCAK" (Problem Exists
>>> Between
>>> Chair And Keyboard).
>>>
>>> Whereas I assumed that the previous owner had put in one big-ass 4D
>>> battery in place of two smaller batteries, I believe now that I will
>>> find another 4D battery in the compartment just forward of the
>>> first.
>>> Who knew??? That really explains a lot of things!
>>>
>>> Thank you all for being helpful, kind, and patient. Turns out that
>>> those big ballast boxes down there are actually batteries!
>>>
>>> Name Withheld to Protect the Guilty.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/6/2011 4:47 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>>> This might indicate that the red power cable you hooked up
>>>> initially to
>> your
>>>> new battery was the one that powers the DC Panel.
>>>>
>>>> The boat comes from the factory with 2 - 4D sized semi-deep cycle
>> batteries.
>>>> Most likely, one of them died and he just removed it from the
>>>> system.
>> The
>>>> only wire he wouldn't have had any use for was the large ground
>>>> Jumper
>> that
>>>> connects both Negative terminals. He MAY have also removed the
>>>> cable
>> from
>>>> position "2" on the switch to avoid having this wire hanging
>>>> around which
>>>> would become live whenever "both" was enabled on the switch.
>>>> That would
>>>> pretty much explain what you're seeing.
>>>>
>>>> So... I think you need a Chunk of red 2/0 cable to connect
>>>> between the
>>>> switch's battery position 2 and the new battery's positive post.
>>>> And a
>>>> chunk of Black or Yellow 2/0 cable to connect both battery Negative
>>>> terminals together. Then, you're off to the races...
>>>>
>>>> BTW, your boat is only 38 hulls off of ours, so the stock wiring
>>>> would be
>>>> virtually identical. I would shut off the AC power and remove
>>>> the wooden
>>>> panel where the battery switch is located and check to see if
>>>> this is the
>>>> case. To do that, you just need to remove a few screws that hold
>>>> the
>> panel
>>>> in place (also the blocks that hold vertical upright in place).
>>>> There's
>> an
>>>> AC outlet there so that's why you should kill the AC power first,
>>>> and
>> also
>>>> wouldn't hurt to disconnect either the ground wires from the
>>>> batteries to
>>>> prevent any accidents there also..
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!
>>>> -Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Dean
>> Vermeire
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:28 PM
>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I selected "1", "2", but not "All" when I had only one set
>>>> of cables
>>>> attached to the battery. What confused me was that I had power
>>>> to the
>> radio
>>>> with the appropriate battery selected, but no juice to the engine.
>>>>
>>>> All I can figure is that there is something unusual in the wiring
>>>> that
>> was
>>>> done when a previous owner put in the one ginormous 4D battery,
>>>> rather
>> than
>>>> two batteries.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>> On 9/6/2011 4:21 PM, Jane& Ken wrote:
>>>>> A thought---If the 'new' group 27 was initially connected as
>>>>> indicated,
>>>> and batt 1 was selected without any start power----then the 'new'
>>>> battery
>>>> was connected to the 'othr' cables and selector batt 2 resulted in
>> nothing--
>>>> DEAN, did you also turn the selector to batt 1 , then batt 2,
>>>> then batt
>> all,
>>>> without any success?? My hull #219 had the # 1 / # 2 backward.
>>>>> However, Jeff's comments are correct and should be
>>>>> followed when
>>>>> adding the two batteries--and a dedicated group 27 starting
>>>>> battery.
>>>>> Ken, OBUOY #219
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Tue, 9/6/11, Jeff Hare<catalina at thehares.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Jeff Hare<catalina at thehares.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Another battery-related question
>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 3:31 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This should work. If the 1-2-both switch is acting like an on/
>>>>> off then
>> the
>>>> new battery probably wasn't hooked up quite right.
>>>>> In proper hookup, both battery negatives should be connected
>>>>> directly
>>>> together. One heavy red from one battery positive should go to
>>>> the "1"
>> post
>>>> of the switch, the second heavy red should go to the "2" post on
>>>> the
>> switch.
>>>> The "C"ommon post of the switch goes to the starter and the
>>>> "house" power
>>>> panel.
>>>>> The 4awg red cables are usually shore power charger and windlass
>>>>> power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check carefully for the 3 foot section of black 2/0 gauge cable
>>>>> that is
>>>> the key ground between both batteries. If the prev owner only had
>>>> one
>>>> battery, he may have also disconnected that jumper and left it in
>>>> the
>>>> compartment somewhere. You need that.
>>>>> -jeff
>>>>> -jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> Dean Vermeire<dean at vermeire.us> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm familiar with the wiring that you've described. Makes
>>>>> perfect sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my case, there was only one battery to start with. Both
>>>>> positive
>>>>> cables, as well as the two heavy ground cables and the smaller
>>>>> ground
>>>>> cable were connected to the one 4D battery. There was no jumper.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I replaced the 4D battery with a group 27 battery, I found
>>>>> that I
>>>>> had to connect all cables the way I had found them, which sounds
>>>>> obvious. What surprised me was that I couldn't have one battery
>>>>> connected to just one set of cables with the switch set to that
>>>>> battery and have the engine start. Basically, the two battery
>>>>> switch
>>>>> really only acts as an on / off switch when both sets of cables
>>>>> are
>>>>> connected to only one battery.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/6/2011 10:14 AM, Jeff Hare wrote:
>>>>>> We can only speculate here without some pictures of the wiring
>>>>>> you're
>>>> referring to, but what may have happened was that you didn't get
>>>> all the
>>>> grounds connected.
>>>>>> The starter/engine ground connects via heavy cable to the aft
>>>>>> most
>>>> battery, then a jumper continues to the forward battery. The
>>>> forward
>> battery
>>>> typically has the windlass ground attached also. Is it possible you
>> didn't
>>>> get the heavy ground between the batteries connected? All grounds
>>>> need to
>> be
>>>> connected.
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean Vermeire<dean at vermeire.us> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'd think that all possible questions have been asked by now,
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> came up with another this weekend. When we got out to the boat
>>>>>> for a
>>>>>> nice long weekend and were ready to head out, the engine would
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> start. The batteries just didn't have enough juice for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the first time I have had to get at the batteries on this
>>>>>> boat, so please forgive the stupidity here! When I got at the
>>>>>> batteries, I found that there was really only 1 there - a 4D
>>>>>> truck
>>>>>> battery (which others have recommended lately). That's fine.
>>>>>> Nice to
>>>>>> know. I ran over to the marina store (the only place open on
>>>>>> Sunday)
>>>>>> and bought a Group 27 Deep Cycle battery. I will probably put
>>>>>> in a 4D
>>>>>> again, since the battery tray fits a 4D perfectly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I hooked up the new battery. I only connected one set of
>>>>>> battery
>>>>>> cables. I put the switch on "1". The radio, instruments, VHF,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>> all worked fine, but the engine did not turn over. Not even a
>>>>>> click.
>>>>>> I switched the cables on the battery and put the switch on "2".
>>>>>> Same
>>>>>> thing. Finally, I put the cables the way I had found them, with
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> sets of cables hooked to the one battery. I probably put the
>>>>>> switch
>>>>>> on "All", although I don't understand what difference it would
>>>>>> make.
>>>>>> The engine started right up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The boats I have had in the past had two batteries. I made it a
>>>>>> habit
>>>>>> of switching to just one battery once the engine was off, to make
>>>>>> sure I would have enough power to start up again later. Having
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> sets of cables on one battery seems to be contrary to that idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, why didn't the engine have power when I had just one set of
>>>>>> cables on the battery and have the switch set to that battery
>>>>>> number?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Humbly,
>>>>>> Dean Vermeire
>>>>>> Moonstruck II (#847)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3879 - Release Date:
>>>> 09/05/11
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3881 - Release Date:
>>> 09/06/11
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
More information about the C320-list
mailing list