[C320-list] New House Batteries (Dean Agee)

Thu Dec 1 14:43:39 PST 2016

Thank you all for the many suggestions and ideas.  

Not to hi-jack my own thread, but we recently purchased a Torquedo 1003s for
our dinghy.  Amazing battery and motor technology.  

Dean Agee
AhSeaHola #912  

-----Original Message-----
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To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: C320-list Digest, Vol 2768, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: New House Batteries (Warren Updike)
   2. Re: New House Batteries (Warren Updike)
   3. Re: New House Batteries (Scott Thompson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:15:33 +0000
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A while ago Nigel Calder wrote an article comparing the cost of various
types of power for boats. Yes, there are benefits to AGM and GEL; but, the
conclusion was that the most cost effective approach is std. lead-acid
batteries. That said, most 4D batteries are designed for large trucks and
commercial vehicles that have both starting and low-demand loads. My choice
is Interstate SRM-4D, about $200 ea. These have heavier plates than the std
4D combination batteries you normally find. I've had good service from them
and I buy them locally at our marina. 

Seems many production boats in our size come with a 50A automotive type
alternator. These are probably fine for weekend and day sailors; but, for
cruisers might be undersized. Given the heat of the engine box, the 50A
degrades quickly to 30-35A. This lengthens the time to bring a bank down 50%
up to 90+%, meaning recharging daily. There are good options available. With
a 3/8" belt, 80 to 100A is about the most effective. 1/2" belts can support
100-120A. With two 4D's for the house, separate start batt., and 80A alt on
3/8" belt, we are able to go two days at anchor without charging and stay
within the 50% discharge rate.  

Solar energy for use on boats is coming of age, and can be useful in cutting
battery use.

There is a lot to be said on the topic, and there is a lot of good advice in
the archives.

Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Agee [mailto:dagee at iserv.net]
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:32 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] New House Batteries

Our recently purchased 2002 - 320 came with 4 ? year old batteries which I
discovered to be 4D PowerSource Industrial/Tractor Batteries.

A recent overnight trip convinced me that they are heading towards the end
of their life.  Identical replacement batteries are $164 each.  The Marine
equivalents run around $600-$700.  

Does anyone have thoughts on battery replacement?  I don't mind spending the
extra money - but would like to know what I'm getting for the money.

Also, in another post, the owner of an early series boat - in the #160s -
said that the Catalina supplied alternator was "undersized".  Does anyone
know if Catalina upgrade the alternator in later boats?

Thanks!  

Dean Agee

AhSeaHola #912

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:07:44 +0000
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jim, re fact that one batt goes first, here is a thought. If they are
connected in parallel, the pos and neg cables should be attached to
different batteries. This forces the load to pass through all 12 cells. If
you have the original wiring with each battery separate, forget I said this.
Warren

-----Original Message-----
From: jbrown5093 at yahoo.com [mailto:jbrown5093 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 8:35 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries

Just replaced my second set of flooded 4Ds after 6 years. Interestingly it
was battery 2 after 6 years on both sets that went first. I was happy with
the flooded cells but the local boat yard (getting to old to muscle this set
out) said that flooded cells are no longer considered acceptable by ABYC
standards if they are housed in the salon or berths without separate
ventilation-probably because of potential problems like Greg's. if true that
might be a consideration if you need a survey for insurance or sale purposes
in the next few years.

On their recommendation I went to AGM Lifeline batteries. I had the Charles
charger that did not support AGMs. Called Charles and they will convert the
charger to AGM compatable for $75.  Great people to work with-much like
Garhauer. 

Jim Brown
Desafinado 973

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 29, 2016, at 5:42 AM, Scott Westwood <scottwestwood at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> 
>  John,
> Do you have any pics on where you mounted your solar equip?  That may be
our next large purchase.
> Thanks,
> Scott Westwood scottwestwood at bellsouth.net H (919)-362-8538    C
(919)-618-7185
> 
>      From: John Morrison <sail-ability at sympatico.ca>
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com> 
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries
> 
> Conventional wisdom of this group has been recommending the deep cycle
Interstate battery. I purchased 2 several years ago and they R performing
well.  My boat has a 55amp alternator and rather than upgrade it I installed
a 185W solar panel. I highly recommend this upgrade haven't plugged into
shore pwr in 2 seasons.
> JohnM 1999#574
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 28, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Dean Agee <dagee at iserv.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Our recently purchased 2002 - 320 came with 4 ? year old batteries which
I
>> discovered to be 4D PowerSource Industrial/Tractor Batteries.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A recent overnight trip convinced me that they are heading towards the
end
>> of their life.  Identical replacement batteries are $164 each.  The
Marine
>> equivalents run around $600-$700.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Does anyone have thoughts on battery replacement?  I don?t mind spending
the
>> extra money ? but would like to know what I?m getting for the money.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Also, in another post, the owner of an early series boat ? in the #160s ?
>> said that the Catalina supplied alternator was ?undersized?.  Does anyone
>> know if Catalina upgrade the alternator in later boats?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks!  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dean Agee
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> AhSeaHola #912
>> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 06:47:15 -0500
From: Scott Thompson <surprise at thompson87.com>
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries
Message-ID: <94b6bbbd-3bd1-5415-dd89-209424dd9f09 at thompson87.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Warren, the logic of that escapes me. If the batteries are connected in 
parallel then the positive terminals are tied together as are the 
negative terminals. Assuming the cables and connections are all good, it 
shouldn't matter which of the tied terminals also has the connection to 
loads or charge source.

Scott Thompson

On 11/30/2016 5:07 PM, Warren Updike wrote:
> Jim, re fact that one batt goes first, here is a thought. If they are
connected in parallel, the pos and neg cables should be attached to
different batteries. This forces the load to pass through all 12 cells. If
you have the original wiring with each battery separate, forget I said this.
> Warren
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jbrown5093 at yahoo.com [mailto:jbrown5093 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 8:35 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries
>
> Just replaced my second set of flooded 4Ds after 6 years. Interestingly it
was battery 2 after 6 years on both sets that went first. I was happy with
the flooded cells but the local boat yard (getting to old to muscle this set
out) said that flooded cells are no longer considered acceptable by ABYC
standards if they are housed in the salon or berths without separate
ventilation-probably because of potential problems like Greg's. if true that
might be a consideration if you need a survey for insurance or sale purposes
in the next few years.
>
> On their recommendation I went to AGM Lifeline batteries. I had the
Charles charger that did not support AGMs. Called Charles and they will
convert the charger to AGM compatable for $75.  Great people to work
with-much like Garhauer.
>
> Jim Brown
> Desafinado 973
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 29, 2016, at 5:42 AM, Scott Westwood <scottwestwood at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>>
>>   John,
>> Do you have any pics on where you mounted your solar equip?  That may be
our next large purchase.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Westwood scottwestwood at bellsouth.net H (919)-362-8538    C
(919)-618-7185
>>
>>       From: John Morrison <sail-ability at sympatico.ca>
>> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] New House Batteries
>>
>> Conventional wisdom of this group has been recommending the deep cycle
Interstate battery. I purchased 2 several years ago and they R performing
well.  My boat has a 55amp alternator and rather than upgrade it I installed
a 185W solar panel. I highly recommend this upgrade haven't plugged into
shore pwr in 2 seasons.
>> JohnM 1999#574
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Dean Agee <dagee at iserv.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Our recently purchased 2002 - 320 came with 4 ? year old batteries which
I
>>> discovered to be 4D PowerSource Industrial/Tractor Batteries.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A recent overnight trip convinced me that they are heading towards the
end
>>> of their life.  Identical replacement batteries are $164 each.  The
Marine
>>> equivalents run around $600-$700.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have thoughts on battery replacement?  I don?t mind spending
the
>>> extra money ? but would like to know what I?m getting for the money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, in another post, the owner of an early series boat ? in the #160s
?
>>> said that the Catalina supplied alternator was ?undersized?.  Does
anyone
>>> know if Catalina upgrade the alternator in later boats?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean Agee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AhSeaHola #912
>>>
>>
>

End of C320-list Digest, Vol 2768, Issue 1
******************************************